Showing posts with label 911 discussion. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 911 discussion. Show all posts

Wednesday, March 7, 2012

Adam Syed aka Kameelyun

Status: ASSOCIATE


Group Contacts: Sara Lamadrid, Craig Lazo,

Networks: CIT constellation, WTC Demolition Harvard Task Force

[IMMINENT PROXY FAILURE FROM CALIFORNIA AND MARYLAND
 Also viewing "Jew Toaster" Barrett's page...

Y U WANT TO CALL ATTENTION TO  WHITE POWER MILLER FAGS WHILE SPAM RELOADING THIS PAGE?

 Barrett surfaces from his Red Pill Rehab to endorse America Third Position White Supremacy faggot Merlin Miller:

 Why vote for sell-outs, traitors, and creeps...when people like Bob Fitrakis and Merlin Miller are running? .......
ARE VISITORS IMPLYING  SYED IS AN AMERICAN 3rd POSITION FREAK?
Gotta be hard..they only take 'PURE' white people:
 
]

....................................................................................................

Mediocre violinist and compulsive liar in the Cleveland Ohio area eager to push any conspiracy scam for his budding UFO cultists. Holocaust Denier and amateur con artist. Will push any scam for something. It's not clear what he gets out of helping the group and their friends can people, but he gets something. Maybe hookers and cocaine.

[Scroll down to end for link to Syed's so called rebuttal or read it now]

Lamadrid's Erand Boy

Syed was probably sent by Sara Lamadrid to pump people at conspiracy forums for information. One email Syed sent started out:

How are you? Thanks for keeping up the good fight. I was chatting with
Rep about "Real Truther" and the WTC Demolition crew.
Later is was obvious Syed was part of this "crew":

Have you been banned at 911blogger or Truth Action?
Adam Syed's picture
Submitted by Adam Syed on Tue, 2009-10-13 00:12.

Sheila Casey, a blogger and journalist for the truth-telling Rock Creek Free Press, is working on an article about infiltration and censorship in the 9/11 truth movement and is interested in hearing from people who have been banned at 911blogger and/or Truth Action. She asked me to post this request.

Please contact her at http://www.sheilacasey.com/ -- there is an "email me" link in the upper right hand corner of any page on her blog. Please include why you were banned (if you were given a reason) or why you think you were banned (if you were not told). If you are willing to be interviewed by phone, please include your phone number.
BAAAWWWL CENSORSHIP. And to escape it Syed sends people to a website run by another disciple of Larouchie Webster Tarpley:

"Feature Stories this month include: Peeling the Onion of 9/11 from Jim Fetzer, The Drills of 9/11 by Webster Tarpley"

"We also have another article from Webster Tarpley. This time an interview from Press TV. Dr. Tarpley has been to Libya to assess the situation on the ground, and as you can imagine, his take is dramatically different from what you get from the lame-stream media. "
Syed would go on to push more elaborate scams, when he wasn't helping Craig Lazo spread gossip on Facebook. Syed was a long supporter of the Flyover Conspiracy scam, which Lazo was connected to through a guy called Domenic CIT.


Amazon NewFag Reviews Book, Bawls to Mods

Tl;dr; scroll down to Sunstein Did It

Cognitive Infiltration of the 9/11 Truth Movement,
October 5, 2010


This review is from: Cognitive Infiltration: An Obama Appointee's Plan to Undermine the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory (Paperback)
This work by David Ray Griffin is an engaging and captivating read, my personal favorite since "Debunking 9/11 Debunking," which was such a joy to read as I watched Popular Mechanics become exposed as the propagandists they really are when it comes to this issue.

A member of President Obama's cabinet, Cass Sunstein, in 2008 wrote an essay in which he purportedly made the case in favor of having a program in which government agents, mostly anonymous bloggers, would "infiltrate" "conspiracy groups" in an attempt to muddy the groups' research, in addition to derailing their unity, activism and overall effectiveness. The "conspiracy theorists" to which he most often refers are the members of the 9/11 Truth Movement, the growing number of world citizens who realize that the official account of 9/11 is false.

One serious problem with Sunstein's proposal is that it is Constitutionally illegal, a gross violation of the First Amendment. However, Sunstein's essay suffers from many other shortcomings as well.

To understand the significance (including the wit and irony) of Griffin's analysis, one first needs to understand that the term "conspiracy theory/ists" is virtually always used in a one-sided manner, usually as a pejorative term to dismiss instantly any person who questions the orthodox historical narrative of a major event. However, the true objective definition of conspiracy theory is simply this: a theory of who committed a conspiracy. A conspiracy is when two or more people agree in secret to perform an illegal and/or immoral act. When understood objectively, we can understand that the Bush Administration's official story is itself a "conspiracy theory," namely a theory in which Osama bin Laden and 19 al Qaeda hijackers conspired to attack America with the motive that they hate our freedoms (or in an alternative interpretation still consistent with the official account, that the attacks were "blowback" for decades of cruel US foreign policy in the Middle East).

Dr. Griffin's subtitle to this book is: "An Obama Appointee's Plan to Undermine the 9/11 Conspiracy Theory." The question is, which conspiracy theory is Sunstein trying to undermine? The Bush Administration's official theory? Or the 9/11 Truth Movement's theory, the "inside job" theory?

One of the hallmark traits of "disinformation" is to accuse others of what you yourself are guilty. In "Debunking 9/11 Debunking," Griffin showed the deplorable depths to which the journalistic ethics of the Popular Mechanics senior editors had sunk in their hollow attempt to defend the official theory. Not only did the PM editors accuse "9/11 conspiracy theorists" of basically being unstable mental nut jobs who believe what they want to believe and disregard any information that doesn't fit their views, but the PM editors, all throughout their book, were guilty of these very sins themselves, as DRG so thoroughly illuminated!

Cass Sunstein's paper tries to put the "mental nut jobs who believe what they want to believe and disregard any information that doesn't fit their views" portrayal of 9/11 Truth activists into lofty academic-speak. He doesn't claim that 9/11 truthers are "mental nut jobs," just that we suffer from "crippled epistemologies" and "informational isolationism." However, as Griffin shows, it is the people who believe the official 9/11 conspiracy theory who actually suffer from this informational isolationism; most of these people only rely on the corporate mass media for their world view. Also, the website PatriotsQuestion911.com lists over 400 professors, some of whom, Griffin notes, have taught at institutions in the same league as Sunstein's own (Harvard and University of Chicago). "Could Sunstein with a straight face tell these professors that the reason they disagree with him about 9/11 is because they have been 'informationally isolated?'" Griffin rhetorically asks. He goes on to list a veritable gold mine of names of people in the relevant professions of architecture, engineering, piloting, intelligence officers, journalists, political leaders and more, who have gone on the record to reject the official 9/11 conspiracy theory.

So the "exoteric" (surface) interpretation of Sunstein's essay is that Sunstein wants his agents to undermine the 9/11 truth movement's conspiracy theory. The "esoteric" (deeper) interpretation of Sunstein's essay is that Sunstein knows that it's the official conspiracy that holds no water and needs to be undermined. Might the best way to gradually introduce the public to the truth of 9/11 be to let truths slip out gradually over much time, so that it's not TOO much of a shock to the American people once the truth finally gets out? Damage control, in other words, so that when the public finds out en masse, they will simply accept it, as opposed to actually rising up and demanding serious change?

One reason that Griffin is tempted to take this esoteric interpretation is because he knows that Sunstein, being a graduate of Harvard among other places, is not a dim bulb. He has to be a very smart man, and must PRIVATELY KNOW that the official 9/11 theory is without merit. Griffin points out that Sunstein leaves many "clues" to the fact that he knows the Truth Movement is on the right track by way of the footnotes he provides in his essay. If a person is thorough and follows up, going to Sunstein's sources for which he cites one quote, one will find that the very source itself completely contradicts the very claim Sunstein makes!

It is interesting that Sunstein writes about his plan to "cognitively infiltrate" the truth movement in the future tense, as if such a thing hasn't been happening with groups going back to at least the JFK Assassination (and indeed Sunstein himself goes on to acknowledge the existence of COINTELPRO). It has definitely been happening for years in the 9/11 movement. For one thing, there is the Popular Mechanics literature and the sites like ScrewLooseChange and 911myths, which claim to oppose the truth movement in its entirety. Indeed, Griffin sharply points out that in a preliminary draft of his paper, Sunstein included a reference to Popular Mechanics, which he deleted for his final draft. Sunstein's original words were: "One may see the game [of neutralizing the 9/11 movement] as involving four players: government officials, conspiracy theorists, mass audiences, and independent experts --- such as mainstream scientists or the editors of Popular Mechanics --- whom government attempts to enlist to give credibility to its rebuttal efforts." In the final version, the words "or the editors of Popular Mechanics" have been deleted, presumably because Sunstein realized that he had accidentally revealed that the government had "enlisted" the PM editors to wear the mask of "independent experts." Great catch, Dr. Griffin, or should that be "great cache?"

Then there are also the people who I suspect of being gatekeepers within the truth movement, pretending to be activists but whose real goal is to stem the tide against certain damning evidence more quickly getting accepted more widely. These people blend their way into the 9/11 truth community and earn its respect by posting lots of genuinely good material on the World Trade Center collapse. But then they expend their "credibility capital" by staunchly defending the official line on many other aspects of the official theory, particularly to do with the dubious phone calls from the planes, the existence of "real" Islamic hijackers, Israeli involvement, and of course, the biggie: what really happened at the Pentagon.

Now on that last point, let me relate my own thoughts on observations and experiences I've had within the 9/11 Truth Movement over the past year and how they tie in with Dr. Griffin's work.

Within the truth movement blogosphere, there's been some extremely damning evidence, proving an inside job, that's been the target of much maligning among supposed truth activists. Readers of this review should watch the presentation "National Security Alert," by Citizen Investigation Team (CIT), link provided at the end of this review. Basically, the official story claims that Flight 77 knocked down five light poles before crashing at an angle into the west wing of the Pentagon. However, the downed light poles all follow a flight trajectory that must be SOUTH of the CITGO gas station at all times (see image):

[...]

However, when you watch NSA, you will see and hear witness after witness after witness (times thirteen) interviewed, most of whom are standing where they were on 9/11. Without exception, each witness puts the plane NORTH of the Citgo gas station, which is absolutely irreconcilable with the evidence. It is indeed the simplest smoking gun of 9/11 proving a staged deception: plane north of gas station = inside job, staged light poles, pre-planted explosives in the Pentagon, and a flyover of a remote-controlled jet to produce the illusion that AA77 crashed there. (Though if you watch NSA you will indeed find two people who saw the plane flying away. These people still reconciled what they saw with the official story by convincing themselves they'd seen a *second* plane, when in reality it could ONLY be the original PentaPlane which the observers to the approach place on the North of Citgo path.)

[...] is the truth movement's most heavily visited 9/11-only site (no discussion of chemtrails, forced vaccinations, global warming hoax, etc.). As it is a highly visible site, common logic dictates that it would be one of the prime targets of Sunstein-style cognitive infiltration. One of the content moderators goes by "loose nuke." He is one of the individuals responsible for disseminating the "work" of those alleged truthers who claim to "debunk" the CIT evidence, and at the time when he banned myself and at least three other commenters at the site from posting any more, we had been backing him into a corner and pointing out some glaringly serious errors with the blog he was promoting, entitled "The South Path Impact: Documented, by Adam Larson" (google it). This blog tries to make the spurious, Popular Mechanics -style claim that the thirteen North of Citgo eyewitnesses (who were confirmed and corroborated first hand by CIT) are somehow outnumbered by "dozens" of "South of Citgo impact witnesses," the implication being that all of the North Path witnesses are either lying or somehow all mistaken in the exact same way. What Larson offers up are nothing more than snippets of third hand, printed media quotes, virtually all of which don't mention the gas station at all, just that the witnesses saw an "impact." (Of course, even the NORTH path witnesses BELIEVE the plane hit; it was a military deception intended to fool, just like the demolition of the WTC and how most of us were fooled into believing the planes and fires were responsible. But when a witness provides mutually exclusive claims [north path, impact] a true skeptic must choose which claim is correct. And the NoC witnesses corroborate each other over and over, proving they were deceived about the impact.)

Tying Adam Larson's "South Path Impact Documented" essay in with Griffin's current book: as Griffin says, the esoteric interpretation of Sunstein's essay is reached if a person actually bothers to check the footnotes and the claims (or if the person is already a well versed 9/11 researcher), rather than take the author on faith. And as we know, the esoteric interpretation is that Sunstein knows the official conspiracy theory is false. LIKEWISE: if a person bothers to check the claims made in Larson's blog, one comes across some "errors" that are SO serious that in a few cases they can only be interpreted as deliberate. They are SO glaring that one can't help but wonder if "loose nuke" promotes this material on the ONE hand because he's perhaps receiving a check from someone higher up, his assignment being to muddy the waters, but on the OTHER hand, knows that if a person does the digging themselves, will realize that the "arguments" defending the South of Citgo flight path are, to quote Barrie Zwicker, "tricky and unreliable, in fact, as flimsy as the official story they try and defend."

This review is getting long so in the interests of space, I will cite what I consider to be the most blatant deception in Larson's blog: Larson listed a particular person as a "light pole witness," meaning that the person watched the plane hit the light poles on the South of Citgo path. Upon actually doing some simple checking, however, it turns out that this "witness" was IN NORTH CAROLINA and arrived in Arlington in the afternoon, and happened to see the downed light poles! Yet he was cited as a flight path witness to support the official flight path!!! This was one of MANY such deceptions in the blog.

I will say of "loose nuke" what Griffin says of Sunstein: "Loose nuke" can not possibly be this stupid or incompetent, even though we don't know his academic pedigree. The proof is that he's written some good essays on the WTC collapse. Not being stupid, he must know that those supporting the official damage path at the Pentagon being caused by AA77 don't have a leg to stand on, and like Sunstein, he leaves (not-so-)subtle clues for those that have the time and energy to check.

Well Dr. Griffin, given what I've seen and experienced in the truth movement this past year or so, this is an extremely timely work indeed! Bravo, once again! The truth movement thanks you!

Link to the presentation National Security Alert (NSA) by Citizen Investigation Team (CIT):

[...]

-Adam Syed
10/4/2010
The Short Version: SUNSTEIN DID IT! Did you scroll down? Good, you're doing it right. It's worth reading part of Syed's comment to his yawn worthy review:


Okay. Now I understand that URLs are considered inappropriate material. But I would think it's different it the URL is broken, so that a person can not click on it (which makes it clear that the URLs are not promoted by Amazon). However, in this case, the specific sites are extremely relevant to the discussion of Dr. Griffin's book. Griffin speaks of "infiltration" in the 9/11 Truth Movement, which is a very heavily internet-based movement. It's one thing in order to spam Amazon in an attempt to push one's own product, et cetera, but this is different. The sites discussed have everything to do with Griffin's book.

I've been able to leave URLs on comments in the past, so let's try that here. The first [...], after "see image," should read:

jabbajoo (dot) typepad (dot) com/.a/6a00d8341c0ac653ef01156fb40f3f970b

-pi

The beginning of two paragraphs later, should be "911blogger (dot) com"

At the end, the link to National Security Alert is youtube (dot) com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o

If there is an Amazon team member reading this, please let me know what the justification is for hiding my URLs.
We're sure the Amazon team got right on that. Syed shares the hobby of trolling mods with group member Craig Lazo.

Now we know where the Sunstein conspiracy paranoia comes from, a vehicle to pay for David Ray Griffin's rest home. As it's used...to dismiss any criticism of the group's scams... the book is probably a scam itself. Technically buying a book isn't buying information; it's buying pulped dead trees sprinkled with ink, so this scam is legal.

Why would Sunstein or Obama need more informants and plants among conspiracy crazies? You're think STRATOR had enough people involved. The book is a hoax to push paranoia so conspiracy groups can sell more conspiracy shit.

CAN HAZ MOAR CONSPIRACY SHIT? OH YEAH!









Andrew Bernstein/Cosmos Scam

After a truth overdose from watching too many Alex Jones reruns, Syed started halucinating fer real seriously. Soon everyone started to look like everyone else. Based on his infowar acid trip, Syed wrote a blog at the WTC Demolition Harvard website that 911 survivor Andrew Bernstein was truthaction.org conspiracy founder "Cosmos":

Is Cosmos Living Out a Double Identity, as an OCT Supporter As Well As A Truther?

Submitted by Adam Syed on Mon, 2010-08-30 06:44.
by Adam Syed

One character who was portrayed on the film United 93 was Mark "Mickey" Rothenberg. A wealthy salesman, he was allegedly en route to Taiwan via San Francisco on business. According to the official story, as endorsed by the United 93 film, Rothenberg was stabbed to death early on in the hijacking, and this event serves to support the boxcutter narrative.
Interestingly, the person who goes by Cosmos, aka YT, and founder of truthaction.org, has for the longest time claimed to be the nephew of "Uncle Mickey." We can hear it straight from the horse's mouth on this video at 6:30:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV5KBwfmv04
And on this video at 0:49:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d7uGdaSM7o
There are plenty of other youtube examples, and also it is in print here:


Now, after doing a little citizen investigating, we find that Mickey Rothenberg also has another nephew who is quite the official story supporter. His name is Andrew Bernstein, and we can find an online interview with him here:
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23185
Excerpts from the article:
Mickey Rothenberg died on United Airlines Flight 93 on September 11, 2001.

Andrew Bernstein, Mickey’s nephew, was kind enough to speak with Sheldrake about September 11, his reactions to UNITED 93, and touched on the coverage/Talkbacks swirling around the film here on AICN

AICN would like to offer out sincerest thanks to Andrew for sharing his time and thoughts, and to Sheldrake for his overtime coverage of both Tribeca and The Howard Stern Film Festival.
Andrew’s a Creative Executive at Paul Schiff Productions, a production company in Culver City with a term deal at Sony. [Cosmos is an "artist and musician."]
SHELDRAKE: Ok. Let’s start at the day this all happened. Were you in California on September 11th? [Cosmos is a Bay Area person.]

ANDREW: I was actually a senior at Penn State... Oddly enough, it’s about an hour’s drive from the Shanksville field, where the flight hit the ground. And, you know, it was a devastating morning. I remember waking up and getting phone calls, then I turn on the TV and there are the Trade Center towers, on fire, and I spent most of the morning with friends. We were in tears, crying, no one was going to class, the whole campus was shut down. And I remember hitting kind of a wall, where I was accepting it all. And just at that moment, I got a phone call from my mother, saying, we’ve got some terrible news, and I said, I know! I’ve been watching the news! And she said, well, it’s worse. You’re uncle was on one of the flights.

SHELDRAKE: Jesus.
ANDREW: Yeah.
[Cosmos, on the other hand, claims to have found out about Mickey a full two days after the event.]
Anyway, some other online articles which talk about Rothenberg's nephew Andrew Bernstein include the Guardian:
Andrew Bernstein
Nephew of Mickey Rothenberg

As the one family member who works in entertainment, I like to consider myself someone who can step back and look at United 93 objectively. As a piece of cinema it is extraordinary, truly a work of art. It doesn't fall into the conventions of the typical Hollywood movie and tastefully memorialises a crucial event in American history.
Of course, when you are actually watching the film you can't help but respond to it on an emotional level. My uncle is believed to be the first passenger who was stabbed and killed on that flight, so that was clearly an issue in terms of how my family reacted to the way he was portrayed on screen. Fortunately [director] Paul Greengrass was careful to show that what occurred on the plane was part of a collective effort. This was not just a small group of people who stood up and did something amazing. This was everybody. So my family now accept that my uncle's early death was his own unique role in the crisis. He was the catalyst for the other people to stand up and do something. That is his legacy.
And finally Variety:
Andrew Bernstein, whose uncle died on flight 93, said, "Some people say,'How can you do this? It's too soon.' And we say 'It's not soon enough.'"
Now, with the information presented thus far, one might ask: Could it be that one nephew of Rothenberg is a well known truther and founder of the "Eleventh Day of Every Month Until Justice" campaign, while another nephew of the same person is a wholehearted supporter of the OCT and was even treated to a private screening of United 93? Or could it be that Andrew Bernstein IS Cosmos? Could the same person be living a double identity, that of OCT supporter Andrew Bernstein and of 9/11 Truther as Cosmos?
It gets stranger, though.
Quite recently, Cosmos has begun to claim that Mark "Mickey" Rothenberg was not actually an uncle at all, merely a family friend. It is not clear exactly where he first claimed this, but it was talked about in July at the site WTCDemolition.com.
Cosmos apparently said "Mickey" was his uncle but then admitted he wasn't actually even a relative--just "like" an uncle.
http://wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/2733#comment-20775

However, there may not be an online posting of this admission by Cosmos, but it doesn't matter, given irrefutable evidence from his own new web site, presented below.
Cosmos is one of the "editors" at the new website 911TruthNews.com. The site went public on August 18, but a GoogleCache snapshot exists of what the site looked like on August 11:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http%3A%2F%2F911truthnews.com%2Fabout-911-truth-news%2Fteam%2F
Cosmos is an artist and musician whose uncle was murdered in the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001.

(Screenshot for when the cache eventually changes:)



**********

It seems that Cosmos has fairly recently decided, for whatever reason, to change his relationship to Rothenberg. The question is, Why? Is it possible that he realized he hadn't covered his tracks thoroughly enough, and that people might question his identity?

More than any other 9/11 truther of whom I'm aware, Cosmos sure doesn't want most 9/11 truthers to know his real name.

Incidentally, given that Andrew Bernstein was used as fodder to sell the hijacker/hero/boxcutter story online, it is quite interesting to note that Cosmos, when inside the Ground Zero Memorial store with Jon Gold, went out of his way to condemn the United 93 movie and the official story of what happened, dismissing it as propaganda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INpgVmPQ2mU

However, Cosmos has not gone on the record to question specifically what happened to Mickey, and exactly how he died.

At the very least, ladies and gentlemen, the credibility of Cosmos is now in serious doubt. For many years he claimed family member status of a 9/11 victim, and is now unequivocally on the record as changing his story.

Why would a person lie about being a 9/11 family member?

More tl;dr schizo conspiracy spam: first this guy is a faking being a conspiracy nut, then he isn't. Syed thinks there's something strange about anyone have more than one nephew. Lets see how this story "proving" Berstein is this Cosmos guy stands up to "a little citizen investigating":


Deeeeerrrrrpp.

This explains why Syed wears glasses. Proving optometrists won't run out of business soon, his friends spammed this scam like the conspiracy scoop of the century:

The Progressive Mind: http://www.theprogressivemind.info/?p=47405

At a place called Pilots for 911 Truth: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20545

At 911oz.com, from the comments populated by people who've gone Over the Rainbow one way or the other: http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8610

At a fake PAC called Citizen's Investigation team: http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=1459

One user dissents, the only conspiracytard to disagree besides the target:

Andrew Bernstein and Cosmos are likely not the same person. According to the AICN writeup linked to above, Andrew Bernstein is a Creative Executive at Paul Schiff Productions, a film production company in Culver City, which is near Los Angeles. Cosmos, on the other hand, has apparently lived in the San Francisco Bay area during the last 9 years since 9/11, and is credited with starting the Northern California Truth Alliance. As Culver City is at least 450 miles, or a 7 hour drive from the San Francisco Bay Area, it would appear highly unlikely that Andrew Bernstein and Cosmos are the same person
At Kevin Barrett's Truth Jihad :


Monday, August 30, 2010
So Much for “Uncle Mickey”: “Cosmos” Outed as a Liar…or Worse

Some self-styled 9/11 truth activist who hides behind the pseudonym “Cosmos” apparently has enough time on his hands to devote himself to sabotaging my speaking events. A few years back, I was on the short list for a speaking tour of Australia, but got passed over because John Bursill of 911truthOz, who says he’s a friend of “Cosmos,” believed “Cosmos”’s lies about me.

Others who have invited me to speak in New York, California, and elsewhere have also been inundated with scurrilous emails from “Cosmos” and his friends. For example, Sander Hicks, organizer of last year’s We Demand Transparency conference, told me last year that he had been deluged by emails from the usual suspects. Sander added that Cosmos buddy Jon Gold had ranted, raved, and threatened him, saying “If he (Kevin Barrett) attends your little shindig, then I will never trust you again. It’s really that simple.”

This summer, Ken O’Keefe told me that “Cosmos,” Brian Good, and the rest of the tribe had deluged him with emails about what a terrible guy I was and how Ken shouldn’t share a stage with me in London. Fortunately, Ken was willing to devote several hours to looking into their allegations, which, he concluded, were false and/or misleading. “Why are these people harassing you, Kevin?” he asked me over Thai food at a West London restaurant not far from his home. I told him the truth: I really don’t know.

I added that if I were a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I would suspect that the whole wrecking crew–”Arabesque,” “Col. Sparks,” “Cosmos,” Brian Good, Jon Gold, Michael Woolsey, and Victoria Ashley — were agents of influence. That’s basically what Webster Tarpley said at the 9/11 truth conference in New York in 2007. Barrie Zwicker, who like Tarpley (and unlike the members of the wrecking crew) is a brilliant, accomplished voice of 9/11 truth, also suspects foul play. According to Barrie Zwicker “(the 9/11) perpetrators have assigned disinformation specialists to attack the honest citizen detectives of CIT.” The suspected “disinformation specialists” he is referring to are essentially the same people and anonymous entities listed above…the same people who devote enormous amounts of time to sabotaging my speaking events, asking bookstores not to carry my books, and in some cases physically stalking my wife and me.

Now, Adam Syed has discovered evidence to back these suspicions. In his new article “Is Cosmos Living Out a Double Identity, as an OCT Supporter As Well As A Truther?” Syed shows that “Cosmos” repeatedly claimed to be the nephew of 9/11 victim Mickey Rothenberg, before changing his story and saying that Rothenberg was just a family friend. Is “Cosmos” really Andrew Bernstein, an OCT supporter who also claims to be a nephew of Rothenberg? Maybe, maybe not. But any way you slice it, “Cosmos” has hidden his true identity and lied about being a family member, while devoting his time to sabotaging other 9/11 truth activists and events.

Why anyone would trust this character an inch is beyond me.
Posted by Kevin Barrett at 11:25 AM

Labels: 9/11 truth, Adam Syed, Cosmos, disinformation, Ken O’Keefe, Kevin Barrett, Sander Hicks, Tarpley, Zwicker
Screw Loose Change links to Syed peice: Cosmos Been Lyin'?
And flog it in comments for months, starting with a blog owner who claims not to be a conspiracytard:


At 19 November, 2010 22:11, Blogger Pat said...

Hey Cosmos, still lying about Uncle Mickey?

http://www.truthnews.com.au/radio/wordpress/?p=668

At 23 December, 2010 13:15, GuitarBill said...
Yo Cosmos (aka "Pat Cowardly", Andrew Bernstein)! Did you manage to shave that unsightly cat from your chin?

Inquiring minds want to know.


At 24 February, 2011 11:41, Richard Gage's Testicles said...
"What is the source, Pat?" -- Cosmos, angry at the world for failing to notice him

"What is the source, Pat?" -- Cosmos, angry at himself for alienating his family

"What is the source, Pat?" -- Cosmos, humiliated at his shattered credibility

"What is the source, Pat?" -- Cosmos, jealous that Jon gets more attention

"What is the source, Pat?" -- Cosmos, resentful that some people really do have dead relatives

"Please, son. Come home. Your mother misses you." -- Steven Bernstein, worried that his son is spiraling out of control

Last comment at a blog post ironically titled: Yes, You Are Wrong


Herp. And Syed was a sleazy lying cuntbag pushing the scam in the first place...and leaving it online for almost two years.

The REAL Andrew Bernstein:

Andrew Bernstein's Overview


Current
Past
  • Head (Development & Production) at The Walt Becker Company
  • Head (Development & Production) at Sparkler Entertainment
  • Creative Executive at Paul Schiff Productions
  • Assistant to Executive VP of Production at Spyglass Entertainment
  • Assistant to Feature Lit Agent at The Broder Webb Chervin Silbermann Agency
Education
  • Penn State University
  • THE PENNYSYLVANIA STATE UNIVERSITY University

Not hard to find with a little "citizen investigation". Syed is either too stupid to tie his shoeslaces, much less play a violin, or Syed knew...like everyone who helped him spread this horseshit... he was inventing a sick scam, dragging Andrew Bernstein and his family into the sleazy conspiracy quagmire.


911blogger.org 911NewCentral 911discussion 911 ??
By early 2011 Syed was burning through domains like Imelda Marcos at Shoeshack. Too bad the Browser of Life doesn't have spellcheck. Or Undo. The first couple of domains were a project he started with a clown called something Italian:


I do regret to inform everyone......that things have not gone exactly as I would have thought they would have gone, and I have to take some of the responsibility.

After Jeff Jacobucci (the owner and webmaster) and I worked fairly closely for several months, he sent me a letter about a week ago, telling me that he thanks me for all my insight and help, but that from this point he can "take it from here." He asked myself and Paul Getty to resign from his "advisory board."

I definitely do not think he's an op (he's a school teacher in rural PA) and, honestly, I simply think he felt I was upstaging him, and he wants to feel 100% in control.

This is unfortunate because, assuming he is well intentioned, he could definitely continue to benefit from my experience and insight.
LOL

Guess as long as Syed doesn't need to
ID someone from a police line up.
Less funny: school teachers sucked into these conspiracy scams.

More from Syed:



This is unfortunate because, assuming he is well intentioned, he could definitely continue to benefit from my experience and insight.

At this point I might as well lay out the history of the domain, 911newscentral.com. I purchased it in the middle of 2010, shortly after the summer purge of CIT/P4T supporters at 911blogger. However, procrastination being my life's biggest enemy, I never got the site off the ground. Then, in the wake of the Creek Article about 911blogger, Jeff purchased 911blogger.org and several others. He and I got in touch and decided to join forces. I sold him the domain, knowing full well he'd have control and that he might ask me to go my own way. That's exactly what happened.
Other tinfoil hat wearers think Syed moving had less to do with a difference of opinion and more to do with a hostile takeover or fraud Syed was trying to run from. Pancakes appear to be involved:

Just so everyone knows...

There's a new site started by LV911Truth of this site called 911blogger.org.

Jonathan Mark, pfgetty, posters from here, are contributors to that site.

It is a site meant to be an anti-911blogger.com site. It promotes everything that has been used against this cause. At least, from a quick glance, that's what it looks like to me.

Just more "divide and conquer." Like the terms LIHOP and MIHOP have been used, and were probably meant to do.
Submitted by Jon Gold on Fri, 11/05/2010 - 9:01am.
Syed went on to found 911discussion:
Registrant:
adam syed
190 dogwood drive
loveland, Ohio 45140
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, LLC (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: 911DISCUSSION.COM
Created on: 07-Feb-11
Expires on: 07-Feb-13
Last Updated on: 07-Feb-11

Administrative Contact:
syed, adam kameelyun@gmail.com
190 dogwood drive
loveland, Ohio 45140
United States
+1.5133782236

Technical Contact:
syed, adam kameelyun@gmail.com
190 dogwood drive
loveland, Ohio 45140
United States
+1.5133782236

Domain servers in listed order:
NS67.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS68.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

This was praised by Kevin "Jew Toaster" Barrett:


Second hour: Adam Syed, coordinator of the new website http://911discussion.com/ . 911Discussion.com looks like a promising alternative to 911blogger.com, where sensible and balanced moderation, and free and open discussion, have been conspicuous by their absence. Adam Syed, a professional violinist, is also a member of Actors and Artists for 9/11 Truth.
Syed's website 911discussion was never heard from again.

OTOH:





Or maybe he is.  Definitely a retard, number 9 on the drool scale.   On getting a link to his profile, as per custom, Syed claims this is a "hit piece":

 Read Syed's Bawl Here

Rebuttal score:  1/10

 ...................................................................................

Faggot Returns, Takes Back Lies, Makes New Ones

On May 16th, 2012, Syed returns like a lost circus monkey to the conspiracy organ grinder, telling fellow conspiritards maybe he was wrong about Bernstein, but not before smoking some long truther cult dong:

 Hello everyone,

Remember the whole deal awhile back about the true identity of truthaction founder YT/Cosmos? He had for the longest time claimed to be a family member of a 9/11 victim, UA93 victim Mark "Mickey" Rothenberg.


(IMG:
http://www.sashaliu.com/the_hard_evidence/images/cosmos.jpg)

(IMG:
http://truthactionottawa.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/cosmos-267x300.jpg)

No one would have ever questioned this if Cosmos didn't engage in behavior consistent with that of an
agent provocateur, but Cosmos has attacked many of the finest activists and researchers in the movement, including Kevin Barrett, Pilots for 9/11 Truth, Citizen Investigation Team, and even David Ray Griffin. He claims to do this because he sees himself as a "responsible" truther and he declares the above people/groups to be "irresponsible" truthers who in some way are "hurting the movement." You know the old saying, when a person points the finger too much, it's time to start looking at the person who's doing the pointing.

In addition to his suspicious behavior, there were a couple of other anomalies. Cosmos' story fluctuated, sometimes referring to Mickey as an "uncle," and later, a "family friend." And also, I publicly speculated that "Cosmos" might be one in the same with a person called Andrew Bernstein, an official story supporter who also publicly identified himself as a nephew of Rothenberg.
 Then Syed gets to the point and tries to take credit for finding the real Andrew Bernstein:
It appears that I was incorrect in this particular speculation, because I did find the actual Andrew Bernstein, with a different face from "Cosmos" and whose description matches how he is introduced in an online article from 2006.
One, it wasn't presented as speculation; it was spammed by Syed's  cronies across the Internet as fact.

Two, Syed didn't "find" Bernstein by himself; Syed found him lurking on this blog April 21, 2012, when he downloaded this image:


-->
--> Host Name:cpe-24-209-23-68.cinci.res.rr.com 
Browser:Firefox 11.0
IP Address:24.209.23.68
Operating System:WinVista
Location:Loveland, Ohio, United States
Resolution:1280x800
ISP:Road Runner
21 Apr21:48:34
21 Apr21:53:23

Then Syed swiped Bernstein's linked-in profile FROM THIS PAGE.

Two lies don't make a truth, asswipe.  Or change the FACT either Syed can't research his way out of a wet paper bag or he's been lying for two years.  The only reason he's back tracking now is because of serious  butthurt.

Even with "pilots" sucking his dick, Syed's stalking video has only 1 like after over 80 views.   But the single comment from an OWS supporter is pure lulz:
WOW! You're a fucking idiot! Get your facts straight you insensitive moron, and stop pretending to represent the "9/11 Truth Movement" (which is comprised of some credible people with some credible questions) if you are going to prey on 9/11 widows with your delusions. I'm embarrassed for you, whomever you are. Apologies to Meredith Rothenberg for continuing being attacked by these crackpots who are obviously just trying to publically discredit the movement.
OccupyYourself1
Crackpots true.  Discredit movement?  Too late to stop that.
Of course the so called pilots high fiving Syed don't care; anything to keep the Conspiracy Kool-Aid flowing:




OH YEAH!!!!

Syed seems to  have a hardon for "Cosmos".  Syed's Youtube feed shows him spreading anti Cosmos spam in comments across the Youtubes:

 http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=qduppxNFzS0

"Cosmos" does not spread any love at all. To the contrary, from behind his computer he spews much hate towards genuine 9/11 truth activists like Kevin Barrett, the Citizen Investigation Team, Pilots for 911 Truth and others. His supposed "credibility" comes from his having lost an uncle on 9/11. For more info google "Is Cosmos living out a double identity as an OCT supporter as well as a truther" for the investigative report.
Kameelyun 9 months ago
 http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=36ha6eU2_YM
Truthstorm911 is absolutely right. Cosmos' "credibility" stems entirely from his supposedly having lost a family member on 9/11. For years he claimed to be Mark Rothenberg's nephew, before changing his story and admitting he wasn't.
wtcdemolition com slash blog slash node slash 2963
Kameelyun 9 months ago
 http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=eu_Ky8YKUyo

Cosmos, aka YT, and founder of truthaction, is a fraud. He claimed for many years to be the nephew of Mark Rothenberg (a passenger on United 93) until several people noticed various holes in his story; then he came semi-clean and admitted he wasn't a relative at all, just a family friend who was "like" an uncle. Truthstorm is correct that Cosmos spreads lies and slander against genuine 911 truth activists like Citizen Investigation Team and Pilots for 911 Truth, and also Kevin Barrett.
Kameelyun 9 months ago

 http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=bV5KBwfmv04
Google "Is Cosmos living out a double identity as an OCT supporter as well as a truther?" and read my article at wtcdemolition exposing Cosmos as a fraud.
Kameelyun 9 months ago

Syed also seems to be in love with Kevin Barrett.  Syed obviously needs take a break from conspiracies and get laid.


Fan of "Ozzy" Thomson?

Among Syed's likes is a video by Thomson on his SigurdSnakeEyes channel:
This story about a fake 9/11 survivor being busted as a fraud inspired me to contact the family of another person I long suspected to be a fraud. Within the 9/11 truth movement, there is an individul who goes by "Cosmos" who presented himself as having lost a family member, "Uncle Mickey" Rothenberg (from Flight 93). She had never heard of "Cosmos," much like the family of the alleged fiance had never heard of Tania Head.
v=XE8oPaqaQ78
Kameelyun 4 months ago
Maybe Syed needs to read wannabe pedo Thomson's page.

..............

Syed has become a lurkerfag, compulsively hitting refresh, hoping his page tops Waldron's for  popular post. Then Syed can bawl to fellow conspiratards he's the most "attacked" and that's proof Cass Sunstein is out to get him.

Stalking Jon Gold?

Career on the rocks and still failing to get laid, Syed seems to have nothing better to do than stalk Lamadrid's former dupe, Jon Gold:


In reply to an earlier post on Sep 29, 2012 8:39:24 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 29, 2012 8:40:01 PM PDT
J. Gold says:
Would you mind not stalking me? I am really trying to avoid you because I think you are also mentally ill, and need to seek some help. I wouldn't be surprised if you showed up at my door with an axe. Aidan's posts about phone calls had nothing to do with my statement. It was his VERY FIRST post that said, "Gold's Envy & Ego Driven 9/11 Researcher Bashing... One can insert into Gold's "conspiracy industry dimwit" term, the name of any of the many figures within the so called "9/11 Truth" movement who have figured more prominently than Jon Gold. "Conspiracy theorist" is mainstream code for the skeptical researcher. And "dimwitted" are those who believe that simply declaring America was lied to about 9/11 will yield truth and justice." You knew that, but because you are either mentally ill, or a shit poor liar, you said otherwise just to misrepresent my statement about him. Please, stop stalking me. As I posted on Facebook, "some people in the "9/11 Truth Movement" don't like this review. They think I have a huge ego. They think I want to be famous. They didn't address any of the behavior mentioned by Nafeez. They just gave perfect examples of it." Again, please stop stalking me Adam Syed.
Looks like Wonder Boy isn't the only one who OD'd on red pills!!



Monday, September 11, 2006

Ginny Ross' Conspiracytarded Crap at Blue Oregon

What ever she really is (sleazy cult lawyer fronting as a liberal), Ginny Ross had to keep up appearances while at the same time put in her time at the Tin Foil Ministry.  That meant confronting her fellow Democrats with her "evidence" of an "Inside Job" at BlueOregon.  TL;DR convo follows.  Ross in RED:




Five years. 

 

Discuss.


  • BOHICA (unverified)
    Where's Osama?
  • Does anyone buy the official myth/story still?
    If so, please read "Crossing the Rubicon" by Michael Ruppert and the "Terror Timeline" by Paul Thompson. See http://www.septembereleventh.org for many high quality links. Please put pressure on the Left and the media to start telling the truth. The events of 9/11 were pre-arranged to occur with help from the inside. How else could a highly fortified 47 story steel frame building (WTC 7) fall to the ground in the style of a controlled demolition when no plane or debris from the towers even hit it? Did you know there is barely a mention of this in the 9/11 Report? What does that say about the Commission?
    9/11 is the Bush Reichstag, and it is high time we all looked directly into the face of it. The entire War on Terror is a contrivance! Let's not allow the D party regain power on the premise that they will "do a better job" on this FAKE war. Let's demand that they expose, investigate, and prosecute the REAL culprits of the false flag events. There's a platform we should be supporting.
    Get involved locally at: http://www.pdx911truth.blogspot.com
    GR
  • Andy from Beaverton (unverified)
    Hey Ginny,
    Why don't you just go piss on the graves of everyone who died on 9/11? How stupid can you be to believe the crap you are spreading?

    Here's two links for you: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html and one you need to read here: http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm If you can't read, watch this video of WTC7 http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Smoke.avi
    I can only imagine the lies and propagnda you are telling friends and family. You need to get fired like Mike Malloy because people in the real world aren't listening to you.
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    I don't know what's worse: a bunch of ragheads intent on converting us to Islam or killing us (choose one), or a bunch of tin foil hat conspiracy theorists who refuse to give the rag-heads the credit they deserve?
  • Greg Diamond (unverified)
    I'm not the first person around to say this, but I'm not mourning September 11th. To be sure, it was a horrible day, and the people who were directly involved will never be the same. For the rest of us, it's just emotional porn.
    No, what I'm crying over today is September 12th. The way everyone stood up before the dust had even settled and asked, "What can I do?" Even out in Oregon, people were walking around with nervous ticks thinking that they needed to do something, anything, to help. I'm in tears thinking about the Queen's Foot Guards playing the Star Spangled Banner in England.
    What I'm mourning today is how this administration took that sense of civic duty and all that goodwill and not only squandered it, but actively flushed it down the crapper. Having spent most of the time since 2001 living abroad, I can tell you that's what our erstwhile allies are mourning as well.
  • James Caird (unverified)
    Mister Pee,
    Thanks for the graphic demonstration of how a racist moron's mind works.
    Fascinating.
  • Chris (unverified)
    Hey Andy from Beaverton, Bush admitted to secret prisons after denying them.
    Be careful what you claim to be an authority.
  • Chris (unverified)
    Hey Andy from Beaverton, Bush admitted to secret prisons after denying them.
    Be careful what you claim to be an authority.
  • jami (unverified)
    if al gore were serving his second term, perhaps i'd be thinking, that's the day it all turned around, the day we asked the muslim world to help us bring terrorists to justice, and seeing that we had been hurt and we needed help, they agreed.
    instead, tens of thousands of people have been killed by bush's bully-child notions of foreign policy, and we have thousands more radicalized terrorists to show for it.
    this is a sad day indeed.
  • Phil Jones (unverified)
    I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't feel any safer now than I did on September 10th. I think the Bush Administration has created a lot more hatred of the U.S. worldwide and that worries me.
  • Kristi (unverified)
    Greg - Thanks you for writing exactly what I'm feeling today but couldn't find the words. Well said. Phil - Just to add to what you've already said, not only is there more hatred but the Bush administration has sucked our resources dry with this ridiculous war in Iraq, resources that could have been used in a real defense of our nation in homeland security. Funny they talk about wanting to "defend the homeland" but fail to do what the 9/11 commission suggests - and then makes up a movie about it and puts in on ABC. I'm so depressed today.
  • On the conspiracy, I did watch some of Ginny's stuff. But I remain utterly unconvinced. The problem isn't just that there are completely reasonable explanations for what happened, it's really the assumptions you have to make other side that makes it impossible. These people are saying that, not only did a bunch of Democrats in New York agree to bomb their own building, they're also proposing a world in which Bush, Cheney, et al, are all amazingly smart?!?
    I'm sorry. That's just insane. My God, Bush can't eat a friggen pretzil without nearly dying. I'm now supposed to believe the Screw-up in Chief is an incredible genius who managed to create an airtight conspiracy, consisting of thousands of people, and pulled it off flawlessly? Or Cheney? Mr. Firearm safety? Quite honestly, I can't think of a single person in the entire cabenet who - in any kind of a sane world - could get a job as a shoe shiner. They're that incompetent.
    p.s. Mr. Tee, how is that any different from Anne Coulter, of the "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity" fame? I mean, I'll grant you that if the "Rapture" came tomorrow, and all Conservative Christians, Conservative Muslims, and Conservative Jews, were lifted up to the heaveans by God (to slowly strangle to death in the upper Mezosphere) the world would be an instantly better place. Wars all over the world would stop, including in Palestine and Israel. But given that dream isn't exactly likely, why are Muslims more responsible for their asshole religious conservatives who think they speak for God than Christian Americans are for our asshole religious conservatives who think they speak for God?
  • yak (unverified)
    Hey Chris, good point. Think Andy is listening? I can't say I buy all that Ginny states - and I HAVE read Crossing the Rubicon, and I HAVE read the Popular Mechanics article. You really DO have to wonder though. Sorry Andy, I am not entirely convinced. I would love to be though.
    The Pentagon - the only evidence the Popular Mechanics article sites is the contractor that "holds pieces of flesh in his hands." There did not have to be a plane for their to be bodies. The amout of inconsistencies is simply mind-numbing Andy. I suggest YOU not "piss on the graves" of those who died and START THINKING instead of spewing venom.
    I was one of those Americans overseas on 9/11/01. The immediate response was not always what people say: everyone being behind us and all. Not everyone was, but most were. I won't forgot how it changed over the next year.
  • Ed Bickford (unverified)
    It doesn't take any conspiracy theory to convict the Bush Administration. One simply has to consider that the 'resident is so closely bound to his friends/business partners in the Bin Laden family that he could not move against Osama. That probably explains why Osama is free today and probably at ease in Pakistan where he has been welcomed to stay as long as he has "peaceful intentions."
  • Jon (unverified)
    if al gore were serving his second term, perhaps i'd be thinking, that's the day it all turned around, the day we asked the muslim world to help us bring terrorists to justice, and seeing that we had been hurt and we needed help, they agreed.
    Wow..."perhaps" indeed...
    One would think that should go with saying. "Perhaps" the "Muslim world" would take it upon themselves to slap the terrorists down for hijacking their religion. But alas, we havent seen that happen either. Based on the way anti-religion folk here in this country treat Christianity, I guess we have to assume they are all the same, with the same agenda, right?
  • Jon (unverified)
    that should read "go without saying", sorry.
  • jami (unverified)
    jon, it doesn't go without saying that other countries will work with ours. not all countries deserve co-operation. since bush's response after 9/11 was "which middle eastern children do we bomb (graphic) next? and then (horrifying)? and then? and then?", of course even moderate muslims regard us with suspicion.

    a smarter president would have offered countries the law enforcement resources they needed to catch and prosecute terrorists. our very dumb president instead killed a bunch of innocent civilians and said it was our "freedom" they hate.
    i agree with you that painting members of any religion with a broad brush, as republicans like mister tee do to muslims, is stupid, pointless, and annoying. i don't engage in it, but i know some educated people consider it a real badge of honor to call all christians names. they're just as stupid as mister tee.
  • Ross Williams (unverified)
    Lets face it. Bin Laden won. He accomplished more than he could have hoped for.
    The United States is busy marginalizing every moderate Arab in the middle east. We invaded Iraq, overthrew its secular leader, abolished its secular government and are now in the process of creating a fundamentalist Islamic state closely allied with Iran. The growing power shiite power will force Sunni governments to confront that threat, making cooperation to contain fundamentalist Islam that much more difficult. The possibility that Arab moderates will make peace with Israel is at an all time low.
    Bin Laden himself is now a legend. He wanders around the mountains of Pakistan issuing empty fatwahs that we fill up with the menace he could only hope they actually had. He went from a marginalized extremist in the backwater country of Afghanistan to a world leader whose every word demands headlines in the world press.
    The United States has sent hundreds of thousands of troops into his backyard where his newly inspired followers can attack them at will. And in the process we create new martyrs and new converts from the friends and family of those martyrs. Bin Laden gloats as he watches us stir the pot in the middle east in ways he never could. He has been branded a "dangerous enemy" of the United States, what higher honor could their be. What more useful title for mobilizing and claiming leadership of the discontented arab street.
    Herbert Hoover once called Mother Jones "the most dangerous woman in America". He said it once, Mother Jones repeated it at almost every rally she spoke at for the rest of her life. It was a label she wore as a badge of honor and it made her into a very popular leader of the disenfranchised. The opposite, no doubt, of what Hoover intended.
    We lost this battle with bin Laden a long time ago. Its time to start over with something new.
  • It's been five years. We need to quit picking our scabs. I'm sorry about the Twin Towers, I really am. But when exactly did grief become a hobby or a public theme park? There's a time to cry and a time for war. Guess what it's time for now?
    Focus on actually winning the war in Afganistan instead of celebrating our losses. Our retaliation against the Taliban in Afganistan has been going on almost as long as the American Revolution, and that was fought at an 18th-century pace.
    Newsflash: we're NOT winning in that theater of operations. This is a war, not the World Cup, and we need to stop playing for a tie. We can start by packing in the tears.
  • raul (unverified)
    Impressive how angry some of you get when someone questions the 9-11 table of events. How could this have happened? We have never been lied to by shady people in our government, have we?
    If nothing else, some 9-11 conspiracy theories merely prove that we have been lied to so many times, we don't believe these people anymore.
    Urinating on the graves of the people who died on 9-11? I think that would apply to any politician who tries to use this national tragedy to their advantage.
    My wife is from Yugoslavia. They had a whole pile of WTC size disasters, several a day. We delivered the flying bombs that time.
    Quit feeling sorry for yourselves. The world didn't change on 9-11, we just realized that it existed.
  • YoungOregonVoter (unverified)
    Ha! I knew that within 5 posts there would be a conspiracy theorist. I am not going to delve into debating merit with a conspiracy theorist because it is tiring and pointless. The point is, it has been 5 years and the fact that the U.S. has picked itself off its knees and kept going is a wonder to behold. However, I am sure that there are some here on Blue Oregon who wish that we would have switched governments like Spain did after the 2004 Madrid train bombings. That chance is in November, until then I am and will always be proud to have been blessed with being born in the freest, greatest nation on the face of the Earth.
  • CE (unverified)
    Yak - get real. You're right, pieces of flesh and body parts don't necessarily make a plane crash at the Pentagon ... but "marks on the plane wing" and pieces of crew uniforms? Sure, that information as it stands is single-threaded, but what about a freakin' photo of chunks of fuselage on the lawn, not to mention every other bit of evidence?
    I swear, it's like some horrendously Pynchonian nightmare around here sometimes.
    And if you're going to have a conspiracy theory, at least get the story straight and unify it. Moreover, all these theories seem to involve so many people and groups such that, if I believed in them, I'd be shocked that I didn't get a heads up from Dick Cheney himself.
  • raul (unverified)
    Bankrolled by the freest, greatest nation on the face of the Earth. And remember- Hizbullah and the Lebanese government are not the same. If you pay attention to all of the 911s we helped to create, you will know " why they hate us."
    Poisonous clouds of pollution spread after Israel air strike Lebanese minister says damage was deliberate, causing 'an even bigger disaster than the war itself' By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor Published: 10 September 2006 More people will die as a result of pollution unleashed by Israel's bombing of the Lebanon than perished in the month-long war itself, the Lebanese government believes.
    Yacoub Sarraf, its Environment Minister, speaking exclusively to The Independent on Sunday, said last week that a highly poisonous cloud spread over a third of the country - an area that is home to half its people - from a fire in a bombed fuel tank that burned for 12 days.
    The same bombing released about four million gallons of oil into the sea, in the largest ever spill in the eastern Mediterranean. He insists that the environmental damage was "deliberately" caused. Experts say that, if this was so, it would constitute a war crime, in breach of both the Geneva Convention and the statute of the International Criminal Court. Israel retorts that any such suggestion is "very ridiculous".
    The damage began on 13 July, when Israeli rockets hit a fuel storage tank at the Jiyyeh power station 18 miles south of Beirut. The government managed to repair the damage and prevent an oil spill. But two days later, he continued, the rockets returned, not merely hitting the same tank again - just 25 metres from the sea - but fatally damaging its protective burm, a concrete and earth barrier designed to stop any oil spilling from the tank from reaching the Mediterranean.
    "It was definitely deliberate.," he said. "They did not hit the power station, just the fuel storage, and this was the tank that was closest to the sea."
    He expects the greatest "catastrophe" from the toxic cloud that was blown by the prevailing wind over Beirut and one-third of the country. Tests have shown, he says, that it contains high levels of poisonous lead and mercury, and highly dangerous PCBs.
    "Not only have we been breathing this for a month, but all the agricultural produce has been subjected to it. Even worse, all these poisons will come down with the rain, and some will seep through the soil and give us a polluted water table.
    "Then in a couple of years every single citizen in Lebanon will definitely be subjected to poisonous matter in his drinking water." He expected more Lebanese to die from the pollution than the 1,300, overwhelmingly civilians, killed in the war. He added that studies have shown there would be decreased fertility and higher rates of cancer. "This is a bigger disaster even than the war itself," Mr Sarraf said.
    A spokesman for the Israeli government said: "We deny the minister's accusations. They seem to be very ridiculous.
    "We never deliberately targeted any civilian capacity or place, we only targeted places or facilities relevant to Hizbollah."
    More people will die as a result of pollution unleashed by Israel's bombing of the Lebanon than perished in the month-long war itself, the Lebanese government believes.
    Yacoub Sarraf, its Environment Minister, speaking exclusively to The Independent on Sunday, said last week that a highly poisonous cloud spread over a third of the country - an area that is home to half its people - from a fire in a bombed fuel tank that burned for 12 days.
    The same bombing released about four million gallons of oil into the sea, in the largest ever spill in the eastern Mediterranean. He insists that the environmental damage was "deliberately" caused. Experts say that, if this was so, it would constitute a war crime, in breach of both the Geneva Convention and the statute of the International Criminal Court. Israel retorts that any such suggestion is "very ridiculous".
    The damage began on 13 July, when Israeli rockets hit a fuel storage tank at the Jiyyeh power station 18 miles south of Beirut. The government managed to repair the damage and prevent an oil spill. But two days later, he continued, the rockets returned, not merely hitting the same tank again - just 25 metres from the sea - but fatally damaging its protective burm, a concrete and earth barrier designed to stop any oil spilling from the tank from reaching the Mediterranean.
    "It was definitely deliberate.," he said. "They did not hit the power station, just the fuel storage, and this was the tank that was closest to the sea." He expects the greatest "catastrophe" from the toxic cloud that was blown by the prevailing wind over Beirut and one-third of the country. Tests have shown, he says, that it contains high levels of poisonous lead and mercury, and highly dangerous PCBs.
    "Not only have we been breathing this for a month, but all the agricultural produce has been subjected to it. Even worse, all these poisons will come down with the rain, and some will seep through the soil and give us a polluted water table.
    "Then in a couple of years every single citizen in Lebanon will definitely be subjected to poisonous matter in his drinking water." He expected more Lebanese to die from the pollution than the 1,300, overwhelmingly civilians, killed in the war. He added that studies have shown there would be decreased fertility and higher rates of cancer. "This is a bigger disaster even than the war itself," Mr Sarraf said.
    A spokesman for the Israeli government said: "We deny the minister's accusations. They seem to be very ridiculous.
    "We never deliberately targeted any civilian capacity or place, we only targeted places or facilities relevant to Hizbollah."
  • AQ (unverified)
    Mmmm ... off topic. Delicious.
  • Dan (unverified)
    ..if this were so, it would constitute a war crime
    Raul,
    I've heard that Charlie, the Starkist Tuna will be bringing suit in the World Court against Israel for the environmental damage.

    The ACLU will be representing him of course.
    Dick Cheney told me about all of this in a private, Oregonian reporters excluded, secret society podcast.
    More hard hitting fantasy discussions here at Blue Oregon!!!!
    Dems take back the house (their parent's house that is) in '06!!!!!
  • YoungOregonVoter (unverified)
    Got to love freedom of speech.
  • Bob (unverified)
    Dan, you made my day. Thank you.
    I think the Miami Dolphin might be interested in that lawsuit as well.
  • JTT (unverified)
    Thanks Greg Diamond. I've been thinking that for a while now. We were united. For a moment, we weren't Democrats, Republicans...or anything else. In that moment, I was proud to be an American (if not a little scared).
    I am so pissed at Bush for squandering that opportunity of unity and magnanimity. That tipping point could have been used for so much good, improving diplomatic relations, starting a national volunteer program, just imagine...
    Who knows (if) when we will ever have that same atmosphere of good will and unity.
    I was hopeful in that day and the next week...not so hopeful anymore.
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    Zak J:
    Please tell me you're joking.
    3,000 dead Americans aren't "scabs"....To suggest we should simply forget about them and move on is insensitive and delusional.

    We're not talking about a grade school bully: ignore him and maybe he'll leave is not much of strategy for confronting Al Qaeda.
  • Ross Williams (unverified)
    3,000 dead Americans aren't "scabs"....To suggest we should simply forget about them and move on is insensitive and delusional.
    Why? How much time are you spending fighting to reduce the nearly 50,000 auto related fatalities every year? And haven't we lost more people than that in Iraq already? What are you doing about that? We have many more kids than that who die every year from preventable disease because they lack proper medical care. Are you standing up to change that?
    What makes the 3000 killed on 911 so special to you?
    The answer, I think, is that they are useful tools for Republicans' partisan political warfare.
  • Ross Williams (unverified)
    3,000 dead Americans aren't "scabs"....To suggest we should simply forget about them and move on is insensitive and delusional.
    Why? How much time are you spending fighting to reduce the nearly 50,000 auto related fatalities every year? And haven't we lost more people than that in Iraq already? What are you doing about that? We have many more kids than that who die every year from preventable disease because they lack proper medical care. Are you standing up to change that?
    What makes the 3000 killed on 911 so special to you?
    The answer, I think, is that they are useful tools for Republicans' partisan political warfare.
  • Chris (unverified)
    Just for parity's sake, Ross, they're apparently useful tools for the political fighting of many, not just Republicans.
    And accidental deaths and disease?
    Anyone care for a delightful fruit salad of apples and oranges?
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    Ross:
    If they murder 50,000 Americans in the next attack, would you be willing to acknowledge that Al Qaeda poses a larger threat than automobile accidents?
  • Chris (unverified)
    Beautiful ... and nothing says "constructive discussion" like a sudden swerve to the hypothetical.
    I'm opening my beer (Mirror Pond, of course) and popping my popcorn ... this'll be a good show, for sure!
  • Zak J. (unverified)
    Mr. Tee, I think Greg Diamond's comment above about 9/11 having been reduced to "emotional porn" is spot on. David Sedaris made a similar comment about feeling a little bit cheaper every time the networks queue the theme music by Barber. That about sums it up for me. Public grieving is always going to run the risk cheapening events through staged theatrics. The use and abuse of the dead of 9/11 for political advantage has turned once pure sorrow into histrionics and crocodile tears. Let the dead rest in peace without suffering these final indignities.
    And for the record, I didn't call the dead themselves scabs. I said the rest of us--most especially our political leaders--should stop intentionally re-opening our wounds for their own purposes instead of getting on with completing the business 9/11 called to our attention.
    I recommend Ecclesiastes (ch. III, v. 1-8) if you need a better authority than me.
  • Zak J. (unverified)
    Oh, and Tee, your comment, We're not talking about a grade school bully: ignore him and maybe he'll leave is not much of strategy for confronting Al Qaeda had nothing to do with my post.
    I said This is a war, not the World Cup, and we need to stop playing for a tie.
    But I meant the real 9/11 war--the one in Afganistan.
  • LT (unverified)
    networks queue the theme music by Barber.
    Interesting music--I think the name of the piece is Adagio for Strings.
    Reputed to be one of JFK's favorite pieces of music. Then the themesong for one of the hard hitting Vietnam movies--I think it was Platoon. Now they use it for the end of 9/11 specials.
    At some point it loses effectiveness.
  • Karl Smiley (unverified)
    I wish people would stop saying that 3,000 Americans died on 911. It is not irrelevant that 1,000 of them were foreign nationals. I also wish that we had taken the Taliban up on their offer to turn Ben Laden over if we could show them some proof that he was involved. I'd also like to hear an official explaination of why the Ben Ladens and other Saudis were flown out of the country when everyone else was grounded and Bush was sitting in the school room with that "Oh shit it really happened" look on his face.
    "If wishes were fishes, We'd all cast nets in the sea."
  • Ross Williams (unverified)
    If they murder 50,000 Americans in the next attack, would you be willing to acknowledge that Al Qaeda poses a larger threat than automobile accidents?
    Sure, if I'm not one of the victims. But there is no evidence that Al Qaeda has the capability to kill that many Americans or is even remotely likely to ever have that capability.
    The real threat is that we create a political climate in the world that helps a far larger and more resourceful organization than Al Qaeda to grow to where it can develope that capability. We certainly have made great strides in that direction when we see signs at demonstrations in Britain have gone from "We are all Americans" to "We are all Hezzbollah".
    We cannot win the struggle against Islamic fundamentalism. Islamic moderates need to do that. And virtually everything we have done has alienated them from us and, more importantly, weakened and marginalized them in their own communities.
    As the Conservative leader in Britain said:
    "The danger is that by positing a single source of terrorism - a global jihad - and opposing it with a single global response - American-backed force - we will simply fulfil our own prophecy."
  • raul (unverified)
    Dan, Young Oregon Voter, Bob,
    The point of my post was to illustrate the fact that people in other countries are suffering 9-11 type disasters, and sometimes it is with weapons we either fire or provide. As someone who is pro life ( I hate to tear apart your straw man ) I feel that all human life should be allowed to flourish, and civilian casualties in any conflict is horrendous. An American life does not hold more value than any other life. A border is an artificial construct. If you can compare a innocent human life to a tuna, what does that say about you? Pretty funny, eh? As a retired member of the military I have never found killing an enemy, let alone an innocent, remotely amusing. As you mourn your 9-11, other people are mourning theirs. Get it? Probably not.
  • William (unverified)
    Karl Smiley:
    The September 11 victims website details 209 foreign nationals who died on September 11th. That would put the number of American victims at just below 2,800. Clearly, it's still a large number of homicide victims whether it's 2,800 or 3,000. Their nationality or citizenship is of trifling importance to me.
    Where led you to believe there were 1,000 foreigners?
    Also: whatleads you to believe the Taliban were negotiating in good faith? Osama was arguably more powerful than they were, what makes you believe the Taliban had either the willingness or the power to cough him up.
  • yak (unverified)
    to CE:
    I am more than willing to listen and learn. i have seen no pictures of crew or clothing. the pics i have seen of the lawn and "the plane" are not conclusive. I'd love to see where the plane rubbish went. i would be more than willing to investigate if you are able to provide links to pics or other info. thanks, yak
  • Karl Smiley (unverified)
    William:
    Thank you for the lesson in checking sources. I stand corrected about the number of foreigners killed. Since the towers were the center and symbol of world corporate power, I believed that number when I heard it. My bad.
    As to the Taliban, It wasn't relevant whether they were "negotiating in good faith". The whole world was looking at them aghast. They had sent condolences. They had admitted it was a crime. We could have held their feet to the fire with the moral backing of every country in the world and (at that time) almost all their populations too. Even if we had never gotten Ossama (and we never have), he would have remained a nutcase criminal in the eyes of the world. What we did do was elevate him to and equal stature and give him a platform to proclaim his moral superiority. In his wildest dreams he couldn't have expected a response more to his liking.
    I believe the administration was thinking more about getting their pipeline through on the cheap and getting their oil man Karzai in charge, than they were thinking about Ossama.
  • JJ Ark (unverified)
    My thoughts:
    I was immensely grateful that nothing else happened. It was a quiet, calm day for terrorism here in the USA. Given that our borders are still about as open as one could make them and still have a governance, and that we are fighting (and dying) in a place that has nothing to do with 911, and that we STILL haven't availed upon ourselves the greatest security resource available to us: our own population, I am amazed that we haven't had another attack on our soil.
    Oh, sure, you can't bring a slurpy on a plane. Wow. I am suddenly feeling so much more secure! Oh, sure, you get to be tagged and indexed by the gubbermint to be able to cash checks, drive, and do what we used to take for granted! Again, I am awash in security! It feels like a nice, warm fuzzy blanket that Uncle Dick put on me while I was sleeping.
    OTOH, Osama has already won, and he hasn't had to do much of anything. He just lets the Bush Crime Family carry the water.
    Now y'all can carp and moan and come up with a Million Little Consipiracy theories. Some of them might even be true. But it doesn't change what happened, and what our response should have been.
    We OUGHT to have looked to the democratic countries that have experience with Islamic-based terrorism. Oh, well.
    I never liked slurpies anyway.
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    JJ ARK:
    Who asked you for a fingerprint to cash a check or drive? How is that George Bush's fault?
    I know there are banks that may ask for a fingerprint if they doubt your identity, but you don't have to do business with them if you choose not to. Maybe you ought to get an account at the local credit union.
  • YoungOregonVoter (unverified)
    Raul,
    I get your point of view, yet I apologize if my heart is not pouring blood. Fact is, my mind is set on getting a career and paying for your retirement. After all, them Baby Boomers make up a good quarter to a third of the U.S. population and someone has to be working 50-80 hours a week to fund someone else's retirement. Then we have the illegals to oh how dare me! Hispanic Migrant Workers to support via Federal Grants to non-profits such as the Northwest Seasonal Workers Association. Life is fun for us Generation Yers because nobody in the past 2 generations had the balls to tackle Social Security or Illegal Immigration.
    
  • I'd just like to add a quick follow up. It appears not many of you (regardless to what degree you agree with the official coincidence theory contained in the 9/11 Commission Report) cares to address the actual key questions.
    If you are new to 9/11 fact inquiries I would like to provide some resources for you. First I offer some key questions to focus on, and below I offer some resources for further research (arranged in a "Best of" format since there is such a floodtide of important information out there). The key (real) questions about 9/11 are: 1) What is the connection between the 5 to 15 pre-arranged war games and disaster drills (including live fly hijacking drills complete with interceptor radar blips and for which R. Cheney was head official for planning) and the responses of our trillion dollar air defenses that allowed 4 hijacked planes (known to be real hijacks) to freely roam the skies for upwards of 60 to 90 minutes? 2) Why did an ultra-secure 47 story steel frame building fall into its own footprint by controlled demolition more than 5 hours after the towers fell when it suffered NO plane strike, NO debris damage, and had only minor containable fires on three separate floors? and 3) MOST IMPORTANT: Why did the Bush Administration and the 9/11 Commission go OUT OF THEIR WAYS to keep information and answers to these questions from becoming available to the public and to use all of their power to hide, destroy or classify information pertaining to these issues? (There is no mention of WTC 7's demolition in the 9/11 Report.)
    Whenever one of you (especially those who believe that by merely insulting or impugning me or others who seek answers to these important questions serves you have provided a defense of the official myth) wishes to provide credible answers to any of these questions, please post them here so we can all discuss the actual facts and evidence. This in turn might lead to a theory worthy of a thinking, modern, fact-based society and people, not an appalling, disgraceful, insult-to-our-intelligence such as the deeply conflicted, purposely incomplete propaganda piece known as the 9/11 Commission Report.
    Thank you in advance to anyone who posts actual information or answers pertaining to the questions above. Also, below are further resources for your own investigation.
    Sincerely,
    Ginny Ross
    RESOURCES FOR INVESTIGATING THE TRUTH ABOUT 9/11 (Credit to Mark Rabinowitz for his excellent research at www.oilempire.us)
    Best books about 9/11 Crossing the Rubicon: the Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil, by Michael Ruppert www.fromthewilderness.com
    The Terror Timeline: Year by Year, Day by Day, Minute by Minute, by Paul Thompson www.cooperativeresearch.org
    The War on Truth: 9/11, Disinformation and the Anatomy of Terrorism, by Nafeez Mossadeq Ahmed
    Best movies about 9/11 The Truth and Lies of 9/11: Michael Ruppert's first speech after 9/11, still accurate after all these years.
    Denial Stops Here: From 9/11 to Peak Oil and Beyond Updated presentation from Michael Ruppert (2005), good summary of 9/11 wargames and the context of Peak Oil (a bit choppy in the production, but excellent information that is mandatory viewing for everyone interested in 9/11 truth).
    9/11 Citizens Commission (New York City, September 9, 2004) Best single video presentation on 9/11 complicity, from a forum with Cynthia McKinney, John Judge, Michael Ruppert, Indira Singh, Barrie Zwicker, Nicholas Levis, Jenna Orkin and others. Probably the least promoted 9/11 truth video, perhaps because it avoids the "no plane" hoaxes and it is extremely compelling and credible. A similar, much more flawed event called "Confronting the Evidence" was held in New York City on September 11, 2004 which did focus on the hoaxes (a mix of good information and nonsense) and has received much more publicity.
    The Great Deception: First video to raise issues of 9/11 complicity - published by Barrie Zwicker in January and February 2002.
    The Great Conspiracy: the 9/11 News Special You Never Saw Barrie Zwicker's 2004 sequel to The Great Deception. It is a full length documentary that updates the earlier work. A very good production (for the most part), but the finale includes Thierry Meyssan's "no plane hit Pentagon" hoax.
    The Power of Nightmares: A BBC documentary on the rise of the American neo-conservatives and the rise of the radical Islamists, accepts the official story of 9/11 (supposedly a surprise attack) but otherwise is the best history of the circumstances that led to 9/11.
    Press for Truth: 2006 documentary about Paul Thompson (author of the Complete 9/11 Timeline) and the "Jersey Girls" (widows who demanded a real investigation, which they did not get)
    Best 9/11 truth websites 911research.com 911review.com cooperativeresearch.org fromthewilderness.com oilempire.us ratical.org
    Best 9/11 "blog" (web-log) Rigorous Intuition - http://rigint.blogspot.com - written by Jeff Wells (in Toronto, Canada)
    Best research guides The Complete 9/11 Timeline from the Center for Cooperative Research From the Wilderness
    Best "physical evidence" website Jim Hoffman's websites at 911review.com and http://911research.wtc7.net are the most credible, carefully documented websites focused on the physical evidence issues of 9/11. They are part of the best efforts to separate the real from the fake claims on 9/11.
    Best analysis of al-Qaeda's role in 9/11 "Peeling the Onion," written by an intelligence insider on the evening of 9/11/2001 - archived at www.oilempire.us/qaeda.html
    Best article about Israel's role in 9/11 Journalist Wayne Madsen's article "Waking Up From Our Global Nightmare" published just before the 2004 "election" is the best and most credible article about Israeli involvement in 9/11.
    Best documentation of Pakistan's involvement in 9/11 The Complete 9/11 Timeline from the Center for Cooperative Research has a good section about Pakistan's roles.
    Best 9/11 whistleblowers (most credible) FBI agents investigating the flight schools and al-Qaeda connected money laundering before 9/11:
    Coleen Rowley - coleenrowley.com - her Congressional campaign website (running as a Democrat in Minnesota), would be interesting to see the hearings that would happen if she is elected and the Democrats take control of the House of Representatives in November 2006. Kenneth Williams Robert Wright Sibel Edmonds (FBI translator muzzled for trying to expose foreknowledge) www.justacitizen.org Indira Singh (employee of Ptech) www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/012005_ptech_pt1.shtml www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/012705_ptech_pt2.shtml Lieutenant Colonel Steve Butler, vice chancellor for student affairs at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California -- a US military facility that one or more of the hijackers reportedly attended during the 1990s.
    "Of course President Bush knew about the impending attacks on America. He did nothing to warn the American people because he needed this war on terrorism. His daddy had Saddam and he needed Osama. His presidency was going nowhere. He wasn't elected by the American people, but placed in the Oval Office by a conservative supreme court. The economy was sliding into the usual Republican pits and he needed something on which to hang his presidency.... This guy is a joke. What is sleazy and contemptible is the President of the United States not telling the American people what he knows for political gain." Able Danger officers
    The Big Wedding: 9/11, the Whistleblowers, and the Cover-up, by Sander Hicks www.sanderhicks.com (Randy Glass, Delmart Vreeland,
    Welcome to Terrorland: Mohammed Atta and the 9-11 Cover-up in Florida, by Daniel Hopsicker www.madcowprod.com (best - and only - investigation of the Florida flight schools used by some of the 9/11 plotters)
    Indira Singh's testimony to the 9/11 Citizens Commission, New York City, September 9, 2004
    Best explanation of why 9/11 was allowed (and assisted) 9/11 was allowed to happen (and given technical assistance to make sure it happened) as part of a covert plan to prepare the US empire for Peak Oil. 9/11 provided the excuse for the war to seize the Iraqi oil fields (part of a larger scheme to dominate the remaining oil supplies). 9/11 also enabled passage of the USA Patriot Act and other repressive policies that are part of the long-planned Homeland Security surveillance society. 9/11 was the pretext for the "War on Terror," which its supporters claim is a "war that will not end in our lifetime." The neo-conservatives call this conflict World War IV.
    Best documented evidence The failure to follow standard operating procedures (suppressed warnings, blocked investigations, Bush reading "the Pet Goat" instead of being Commander-in-Chief, the Air Force failure to intercept hijacked jets)
    Wargames simulating the actual events simultaneously that seem to have confused the air defenses.
    WHERE Flight 77 hit - the nearly empty, recently reconstructed and strengthened sector WHAT hit the Pentagon - Flight 77, probably electronically hijacked HOW the air defenses did not protect the Pentagon, even after the towers had been hit WHO scheduled multiple war game exercises on 9/11, including a "plane into building" scenario WHY 9/11 was allowed to happen (and given technical assistance): Peak Oil and Homeland Security
    Best theory of how 9/11 happened The most likely scenario, which fits the known evidence, is "hijack the hijackers with remote control. "In this view, the hijackers were allowed to finish their preparations, board the planes, hijack the controls but then remote control technology was used to ensure that the planes not only completed their missions but also did not strike targets that would have caused even more damage. Flight 11, the first hijacked plane, flew over Indian Point nuclear power station, just north of New York City (an attack there would have been much, much worse than 9/11). And if Flight 77 had hit any other part of the Pentagon, thousands of people could have been killed. This hybrid scenario is speculative, but remote control flight technology is commercially available. One of the manufacturers of this equipment is System Planning corporation, whose former director, Dov Zakheim, was a signer of the "PNAC" report stating a New Pearl Harbor would enable their global domination goals. Mr Zakheim was Comptroller of the Pentagon from 2001 through early 2004 (in charge of the money).
    http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/10/skinny-on-osama.html I've long thought that if we assume a decision had been taken to let it happen, then we should expect that measures were be taken to ensure it happened precisely as desired, and spectacularly so. With so much at stake, nothing would be left to the skill and luck of the 19 hijackers. Flight 77's 270 degree turn to hit the ground floor of the virtually unoccupied side of the Pentagon, while supposedly piloted by the grossly incompetent Hani Hanjour, is the most striking example. The recent report that the WTC black boxes were recovered after all, is suggestive of the same: that the data conflicted somehow with the received fiction. Perhaps the hijackers were themselves hijacked.
    from Nicholas Levis, summeroftruth.org: "Staging 9/11 as an inside job is going to work best (in fact, is likely to work only) if there actually exists an active network of anti-American terrorists who are deeply committed to killing Americans in response to U.S. policy. In other words, those who would blame Qaeda need a (relatively) real Qaeda. A partly-real enemy is much better than an entirely fabricated one.
    "The most robust way for insider masterminds to stage 9/11 and get away with it is to arrange for their agents to infiltrate among "real foreign terrorists." Let them come up with their own plots (or plant plots among them), choose a plot that will produce the results desired by the masterminds, and see that through to fruition. At some point, the masterminds and their agents will hijack the plot from the would-be hijackers, to make sure it happens. You won't risk the whole game on the ability of amateurs to get away with it, you will help them along or even replace them (with a remote control hijacking, for example). But it's best to have "real terrorists" in play. They leave a more solid trail of evidence internationally. Cops and agents and academics of two dozen countries can honestly confirm the existence of an al-Qaeda network. That way there is less need to initiate outside observers into the plot and you don't have to hope they are all stupid, as they would have to be to fall for a complete fabrication of "Qaeda." (Qaeda at this point is just a term of convenience for the Islamist extremist networks.)
    "The best result would be for a whole bunch of Islamist extremists running around believing that their crew pulled off 9/11 all by themselves (how inspiring for them!). The patsies should believe they actually did it. This was the case with the Reichstag Fire and Marinus van der Lubbe: the patsy believed he had done it."
    Best evidence for remote control planes Some coincidence theorists claim that it was a one-in-five chance that the nearly empty part of the Pentagon was hit, even though the flight maneuvers were world class precision flying and it is impossible to believe that a terrorist intent on causing as much damage as possible would have flown around the Pentagon to ensure that the one area with the fewest victims would be hit.
    It is likely, but unprovable, that some form of remote control technology was used to steer Flight 77 into the nearly empty, recently reconstructed part of the Pentagon. Even an expert pilot substituted for flight school dropout and alleged terrorist Hani Hanjour would not have made the amazing flight pattern to minimize casualties on the ground by hitting the nearly empty part of the Pentagon.
    The data on the black boxes (supposedly found from all four planes) would refute or confirm the remote control hypothesis, but this information has not been made public. Few 9/11 "truth" activists have focused their attention on this secret data, preferring instead to desire the videos of Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon (which would not tell us anything we don't already know).
    Best historical precedent The 1933 Reichstag Fire, which was allowed to happen (the lone arsonist had been overheard boasting that he wanted to burn the building) and given technical assistance (SS goons were in the basement with barrels of fuel while the patsy was upstairs trying to set fires) to make sure it happened.
    Other historical precedents (similar but not exactly the same) are described at www.oilempire.us/parallels.html and include Gulf of Tonkin and Operation Northwoods.
    Best "physical evidence" (for remote control) Flight 77 was steered into the mostly empty, recently reconstructed and strengthened sector of the Pentagon. This fact is accepted by the mainstream media - but it is rarely focused upon. It is strong evidence (but not proof) that some form of remote control was used to ensure that the planes caused enough havoc and destruction for the "shock and awe" but not uncontrollable damage (if Flight 77 had hit any other part of the Pentagon, the recovery would have been far more difficult).
    Best areas for further investigation (an unlikely scenario) Able Danger - military intelligence program that was tracking the hijackers before 9/11. The Center for Cooperative Research has the best public database about this scandal.
    The data on the "black boxes" (which were supposedly recovered from all four planes) would refute or confirm the remote control theory.
    Best politician who dares to ask inconvenient questions Representative Cynthia McKinney (D-Georgia)
    Best questions from 9/11 family members 911independentcommission.org
    Smears in the media against 9/11 skepticism Two of the best (most subtle) smears about 9/11 "truth" were an April 29, 2006 USA Today front page review of Loose Change and Mark Morford's promotion of Loose Change in the San Francisco Chronicle on March 29, 2006. Several USA Today reporters saw Flight 77 hit the Pentagon while they were driving to work (their offices are not far from the Pentagon). Therefore, the fact this publication chose to highlight a film claiming Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon is not a compliment - presumably USA Today (like other media publications) understands that this is one of the fake claims about complicity. While one of the 9/11 war games is known due (in part) to a USA Today story in 2004, this newspaper does not dare list all of the 9/11 war games that are publicly known nor the implication of the simultaneous exercises that day, especially those that resembled real world events. Morford's articles on 9/11 complicity issues are more subtle still - they seem to support the grassroots efforts to investigate yet steer the reader toward the "no plane" claims, away from the real evidence.
    Best hoax: Rumsfeld's "Pentagon missile" hoax is the most important disinformation masquerading as 9/11 truth
    purpose: alienate those in DC and discredit the skeptics an introduction to the "no plane" claims
    State Department "Identifying Misinformation" website: a Rosetta Stone to understand 9/11 disinformation politics and psychology of disinformation
    history of "no planes on 9/11" - hoaxes about all four crashes
    Pentagon Truth: 9/11 activists debunk the missile hoax media focus on the hoaxes, ignore best evidence
    fake debate: no plane or no complicity? neither is true similar sabotage against the JFK Truth Movement
    TV Minds Propagandized by Photos - electronic hypnosis Karl Rove uses fake evidence to discredit real scandals
    reverse psychology: "new" Pentagon video released May 16, 2006, hiding images fuels hoaxes - it is bait
    the 757-sized hole and photos of Boeing parts
    suppressed evidence: Flight 77 black boxes found
    Eyewitnesses: hundreds of people saw Flight 77, no one saw a missile or small plane hit the building
    photos of Pentagon area for those unfamiliar with Washington, D.C.
    jokes hidden in plain sight: Pentagate, In Plane Site, Popular Mechanics
    In Plane Site, Pentagon Strike, Loose Change ("no plane" hoax films)
    no-plane hoax promoters (some are sincere, some are not)
    the "pod" plane (a hoax about the WTC plane crashes, 9/11 "pod people")
    BEST ARTICLES http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1036687,00.html "This war on terrorism is bogus - The 9/11 attacks gave the US an ideal pretext to use force to secure its global domination" Michael Meacher Saturday September 6, 2003 The Guardian (environment minister for Tony Blair from 1997 to 2003, Member of the British Parliament)
    The overriding motivation for this political smokescreen is that the US and the UK are beginning to run out of secure hydrocarbon energy supplies. By 2010 the Muslim world will control as much as 60% of the world's oil production and, even more importantly, 95% of remaining global oil export capacity. As demand is increasing, so supply is decreasing, continually since the 1960s.
    9/11 Evidence - Smoking Gun ... by Cheryl Seal www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0206/S00071.htm also at www.unknownnews.net/cdd052002.html one of the best articles describing the evidence and the motivations, warnings, the curious nature of the Pentagon attack (on the mostly empty part of the building), the Bush administration's interference with the FBI investigation of al-Qaeda, and much more. One of the best articles pointing out the likelihood of remote control of the four planes (hijacking the hijackers).
    At the very least Bush allowed 9/11 to happen. But the evidence indicates his guilt involves more than just a huge intentional sin of omission – this now seems certain. ... . why would Bush admit to having been warned about 9/11 in the first place? In the corporate and political world, this admission is a strategy that has been used over and over by creeps who are guilty of huge crimes and know the heat is on. By confessing to a lesser charge, they try to draw the heat away from the main, more dangerous issue.
    www.margieburns.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/6/2088660.html
    The miraculous timing of the 9/11 skyjackers, Part 1 by margieburns on Thu 06 Jul 2006 www.margieburns.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/8/2093537.html
    "The Fog of War Games" -- the miraculous timing of the skyjackers, part 2 by margieburns on Sat Jul 8 18:23 2006 www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1480940,00.html
    The war on paperclips: I worry that I'm turning into a conspiracy theorist AL Kennedy / Wednesday May 11, 2005 / The Guardian OK, I'm paranoid and depressed. My new government of troglodytes, murderers and spivs barely elongates the customary scream I give upon waking. What troubles me more is our rulers' inevitable recommencement of the war on terror bollocks. To begin at what we're told is the beginning, we have 9/11 - the one in the US, not the earlier one in Chile when covert US government intervention killed thousands of innocents and handed the country to a commerce-friendly, torture-loving, far-right junta. Now if 9/11/2001 is so important, why is it so hard to find out what happened?
    The FBI, as we know, blocked all manner of investigations into the plot in the run up to its execution, whether these involved highly specific warnings from its own agents or from government sources in Afghanistan, Argentina, Britain, the Cayman Islands, Egypt, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Jordan, Morocco and Russia.
    Meanwhile, I worry why the nearest military aircraft weren't scrambled to intercept any of the hijacked flights when this is standard procedure and why, when more distant jets were finally aloft, they flew at less than half speed, thus failing to prevent the impacts at the twin towers and then, it would seem, managing to shoot down Flight 93 when its passengers may already have overcome its hijackers.
    It would, of course, be easier to know what happened to Flight 93 if there weren't - according to educated estimates - three minutes of the cockpit recording missing. It would, equally, be handy to have access to the black boxes from the other crashes. Firefighters at Ground Zero have repeatedly stated that three of the four possible black boxes there were found and taken away by government agents.
    And these worries are maybe less important than the ones about clear links between the Pakistani ISI, the CIA and the men named as the 9/11 hijackers. Or the mysterious inability of anyone to capture Osama bin Laden, who fled from Tora Bora, possibly being evacuated by helicopter, and then escaped to Pakistan unhindered.
    So while Chinese paperclips are now made out of vital 9/11 evidence and almost every implicated party goes free, we and our controlling US interests continue fearlessly to terrorise countries unconnected with the attacks, to place permanent military bases near oil reserves and pipeline routes, to harass and murder Muslims anywhere we can, and to foment terrorist resistance at every opportunity. The UK unmasks non-existent ricin plots and threatens us with ID cards, but we can't supply our troops in Iraq with working radios or a legal causus belli.
    But you'd never want to think that on 9/11/2001 covert US government intervention killed thousands of innocents and handed the country, if not the world, to a commerce-friendly, torture-loving, far-right junta. That would make you a paranoid, depressed conspiracy theorist. And, take it from me, that just wouldn't be comfortable.
    www.sanderhicks.com/hopsickerinterview.html
    HOPSICKER: See the basic story is and I need to tell you in just 30 seconds is [that] the government’s story is that I call the Magic Dutch Boy theory. Remember the Kennedy assassination when the "magic bullet" has passed thru three people, the only way they could make a story of one lone gunman even remotely logically possible?
    HICKS Most of the people never bought that and still don’t.
    HOPSICKER: Similarly, in 9/11, it’s only through the Magic Dutch Boy theory that you can believe these people came over here without the knowledge and consent of the U.S. government. The government’s story is that the year before the terrorists began to arrive in force, two separate Dutch nationals purchased separately the two flight schools at the Venice, Florida, airport, that, eight or nine months afterward, began training terrorists how to fly.
    HICKS: Right. But when it all sort of fell apart, both Dutch nationals happened to have two separate aircraft accidents.
    HOPSICKER: That’s correct. They are inconvenient people at this point, because if either one of them ever talked, it could bring down the government of the current administration.
    Making a Case for 9/11 Skepticism / by John A. McCurdy www.globalresearch.ca 20 November 2003 The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MCC311A.html
    www.counterpunch.org/weiner0601.html / The Bush 9/11 Scandal for Dummies by Bernard Weiner June 1, 2002
    A very good introductory article that points out the likelihood that Bush's notorious month-long "vacation" at his so-called ranch near Crawford, Texas was probably a long planning meeting for the post-9/11 political environment.
    www.narconews.com/goff1.html "The So-Called Evidence Is a Farce" By Stan Goff: written shortly after 9/11, this is still one of the best articles explaining the political context and the phony evidence for the official story
    www.attackonamerica.net/ignorad.htm -- MSNBC article on the standdown by a (now deceased) mainstream journalist
    Sander Hicks interviews John Judge / http://sanderhicks.com/judge.html
    http://wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/sept-j24.shtml
    Why is there no investigation of what happened?

    http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/02/sibels-way.html If I had to choose just four links to show your average joe and jane, and pique their interest in the possibility of a 9/11 coverup, these would be my top picks right now:
    1. The wargames acknowledgement AP report. The SF Chronicle is the only paper I know of that still has the original AP report available in their archives.
    2. Senator Dayton's declaration that NORAD and the FAA lied. He announced it during the week of the Dem's National Convention last year. He's got a pair.
    3. This in depth timeline of the event of that day certainly points toward high-level government deception. It's long, but fascinating and crucial to understanding just what Senator Dayton was talking about.
    4. And then finally This gem of a report on the destruction of the FAA controller tapes. No coverup is complete without the destruction of evidence.
  • Dan (unverified)
    Ginny,
    thanks for making it brief.
    There's a rally at mid-night (consult Monday's astrology chart for location) to meet the aliens that have taken control of GW. Make sure to say the secret code. See you there.
  • Ginny (unverified)
    William,
    I noticed you didn't even attempt to answer the questions or refute the evidence. Nor did you give any email address or link to for further inquiry or debate. Who's paranoid? Give some of those links a read and let me know your theory that takes the facts into account. The 9/11 Report certainly doesn't, so please let us know your choice of conspiracy theory. (By the way, the 9/11 Report is a consipracy theory. But it is one of those "outrageous" conspiracy theories that Bush warned us not to believe in, remember? So please come up with one that is not outrageous and state it here.)
    Dan -- Sorry. I did get a bit carried away. But there is so much the corporate koolaid dispenser is not telling us, it is very difficult to summarize it briefly. I do apologize for the length but I hope now that you have satisfied yourself with a good round of insulting me, that you get to it and read some of the facts. Either face the facts and explain them or take your sophomoric sarcasm and leave this discussion to those few here who prefer to come to conclusions based on facts and evidence rather than what they are told to believe by the petulant, psychotic, unelected troglodyte inhabiting our White House and his insipid synchophants controlling our airwaves.
    Thank you,
    Ginny
  • Buckman Res (unverified)
    I don't want to get caught in the crossfire but here is a link to some interesting reading that debunks the conspiracy theories.
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    The 9/11 Comission Report (avaliable at http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/05aug20041050/www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/fullreport.pdf was prepared by a diverse and competent group of people that had access to virtually every witness and piece of evidence available (including 2 million pages of documents).
    I believe page 480 (the speech of President Clinton to the Long Island Association) is the single most damning piece of evidence. Assuming you don't quibble over what the meaning of the word "is" is.
    If you want to be taken seriously, you need to pick one or two conspiracy theories, and then work to develop a chronology of events that explain away the multitude of contradictions with the 9/11 Commission Report.
    You diminish your own credibility with the shotgun approach ("The Government Lied about September 11") and links to dozens of distinct conspiracy theories available on the web.
  • Chris (unverified)
    Ginny -
    It's impossible to have any sort of real discussion - on your terms - about the so-called facts you cite. You can take that grocery list of websites as gospel, but when each of them (supposedly reputable) proffers "facts" that are in direct contradiction with each other (e.g. AA 77 crashed into the Pentagon vs. there was no AA 77), a reasonable person has to wonder about the quality and credibility of information.
    What you have is a pile of self-contradiction, conjecture, hearsay, and a lot of other jibbery-joo masquerading as fact.
    I, for one, know that there was no AA 77 that hit the Pentagon. The folks who were supposedly on the plane are lying low in my basement - we're about to watch some re-runs of House.
    Don't believe me? I'm about to publish an expose about it on the Internet, that magical realm where everything is true.
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    At first I thought Ginny was suffering from Paranoid delusion along the lines of Bev Harris, then I found a website that convinced me that the entire world is being controlled by a small covert group of powerful people.
    These “people” follow a serpent cult belief that dates back thousands of years. Rituals are being carried out to this day; sadly this includes the sexual abuse and murder of young children. I point out at this early stage that I do not want you to believe what I say out of hand. I want you to carry out your own research.
    Remember the movie "Snakes on a Plane"? This link has nothing to do with it, or with the Federal Agent in Charge of the 9/11 Plot. That said, I'm pretty sure they used snakes to kill the pilots and crew of three of the 9/11 planes. Why? Because snakes have no skeleton, so there would be no evidence once the planes were incinerated. Need more proof: do a Google search on "9/11 Conspiracy Theories"...1.6 million results can't all be wrong, right? Well then add the word "+Snakes" to the above search: 9,666 hits. The 9 stands for September, and 666 stands for...he who has no name. I even found a picture of George Bush trying to infiltrate the truth seeker meetings.
    To all the skeptics: once you have read all 9,666 websites, then come back here and we can have an informed debate. Peace be with you.
  • JJ Ark (unverified)
    Ginny: you post a monster batch o links that would take any thorough person YEARS to fully research, document and rebut.
    Impossible.
    So I guess she who posts the most wins?
    The simple truth is that this is an exercise in irrelevance. If EITHER the government story OR a conspiracy is to be believed, the net result is the same: the only people you can rely on are your fellow citizens. Period.
    If the Government story is correct, and the events of September 11th were caused by Osama’s acolytes, we can examine the actions of that same government and come to the logical conclusion that they are inept and incapable of protecting us.
    If a conspiracy has been perpetrated, then we have no choice but to trust and rely on our fellow citizens.
    I would love to see someone move past the how and to the “what now”. I am not seeing anything like that at the moment.
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    JJ:
    IRONICALLY, I firmly believe that is precisely what the Bush Administration has been doing since September 12, 2001. They knew that our intelligence community and "law enforcement" approach to Al Qaeda suffered a series of deadly shut-outs in the years leading up to 9/11. They decided that a new, more aggressive, posture would be necessary to prevent future attacks. Scanning the horizon of anti-Americanism around the globe, he decided early on that Saddam Hussein was a danger to the stability of the region and proliferation of WMDs.
    Five years later, there have been no additional attacks on U.S. soil (excepting the follow on Anthrax Attacks which began the week after 9/11) and any "violation" of my civil liberties remain undetected.
    I am dumbfounded that anybody (least of all a U.S. Congressman) would see any reason to extend U.S. Constitutional protections to foreign fighters picked up on the battlefields of Afghanistan or the IED factories in Baghdad. I understand that we must respect the Geneva Conventions in order to maintain our moral compass. That said, I am under no illusion that Al Qaeda will quit beheading their hostages, killing civilians by the dozens, or exploiting the weaknesses inherent in an open and free society.
    Given our recent experience with the North Vietnamese and (previously) the Imperial Japanese Army, it seems unlikely that America's respect for the rules of war (including the Geneva Conventions) will encourage our adversaries to do the same.
  • Gents,
    I did apologize for the long post, but there is just so much research that people need to start delving into. It is not conflicting or confusing, but it is detailed. It is no more "jibbery-joo" than the bizarre non-answers and silly sarcasm espoused by you and other coincidence theorists for years now.
    We've had 5 years and the debate has barely begun. Why? The proponents of the official myth haven't provided evidence that withstands even the most elemental scrutiny. They have engaged in a massive cover up, and only created their highly conflicted and virtually worthless 9/11 Omission Report when forced to do so --- getting started 441 days after the events in question.
    There's plenty to debate, so let's do that. It's highly 'possible'. How about my simple 3 questions that I posted upstream in this thread somewhere? It's possible to discuss those questions isn't it. Why indeed did a 47 story steel frame building, WTC 7, collapse into its footprint without even being hit by a plane and suffering only minor isolated fires on 3 separate floors? Are you afraid to say? Why is there no explanation of this in the 9/11 Commission Report?
    My theory is that pre-set explosives and a controlled demolition caused the collapse. This theory is supported by, oh, say Newton and Galileo. The 9/11 Report fails to even mention this collapse. Maybe they think alien terrorists did it with a ray gun? How about the major simultaneous war games and drills on 9/11? Let's debate those. Do you deny they happened? Do you know they are barely mentioned in the 9/11 Report? This idea that debate is impossible is just a pathetic cop-out among you Coincidence Theorists. You're not afraid are you? Just like Pitts in today's Oregonian. What a spineless, illogical cop out that was. He claims the Truth movement engages in "rote rejection" and does it himself in practically every sentence.
    Frankly, I have yet to see the real debate even begin -- the mainstream gatekeepers are just too afraid of it. Many of you who have flamed me (and perhaps other regular Blue Oregon bloggers?) are perhaps just still too afraid to begin the debate. If so, the terrorists have indeed won. Inquiry may lead to a horrible place, but nevertheless, the facts await you. FACTS (not theory) that have been WHOLLY DISREGARDED by the official narrative and the 9/11 Omission Report. Three massive steel frame buildings were demolished into dust by explosives in broad daylight in the middle of our biggest urban center. There is no possible way, unless you believe in magical, supranatural powers, that "fire from plane collisions" brought these buildings down. The Bush crime syndicate can break every law we have, desecrate and defile our Constitution as they have done for five years now, but I'm sorry, they can not violate the laws of physics. They just can't. So what's the explanation?
    I posted the long selection of various links and arguments to help demonstrate how woefully inadequate is the official Coincidence Theory and to provide resources for those who are interested. It is not required to read it in order to debate. And the answers to be sought are NOT irrelevant. False flag terrorism must end. Secret national "security" agencies and military industrial networks awash in trillions of dollars of off-budget US taxpayer funds, illegal arms and drug money, and vast plunder from the developing world must end. That we are the pawns in the grotesque charade of 9/11 and its trumped up, CIA-ISI connected patsies and boogey men like Bin Laden and Atta is a dispicable reality in America. The BIG LIE must end.
    It's time to start the real debate. If you can't debate the facts and have to dismiss all discussion a priori using the infantile "all of it is lunacy" approach (such as Leonard Pitts) then you are either still too afraid to look under the rock and are ruled by that fear (understandable perhaps), or you do not respect honest, thoughtful, fact-based inquiries and genuine quests for understanding. If the former, I want to invite you to look into these issues in an open, scholarly and collegial atmosphere at such links as www.st911.org and watch the carefully researched and well presented videos at http://911busters.com/911-Commission.html. Truth can set you free from the fear. If you fall into the latter category, I can't help you because you have chosen to join the 'faith-based' community that has cast off the rigorous fact and science-based rationality that is and should remain the hallmark of our society.
    As a simple, two step challenge, I ask anyone reading this comment, to watch this one video: http://blip.tv/file/72781
    Come back here and let me know your theory of the attacks, and also explain how Building 7 fell down without pre-planning and why it wasn't mentioned in the Omission Report.
    Thanks for seeking truth and good luck,
    Ginny
  • Tenskwatawa (unverified)
    <h1/> Well-worded bogosity, Mr.TeeVee -- 'V' for Vapid -- agit-denying the anthrax was traitorous CIA-grade and traitorous CIA-sourced, (while agit-lying on its timing), and sweeping under your rug of ignorance for all, one single mention of the lawyer kidnapped from his home in Hillsboro at the 2:00 a.m. Gestapo hour, slandered and defamed in false reports to a fear Press who then published the unsubstantiated hype gnosis, illegally incarcerated and questioned without counsel present, and unconstitutionally held unarraigned and incommunicado, whose name (both is forgotten on purpose, and does not deserve dishonored of being in the same breath of a sentence with your name on it), is signed now on a false arrest and sedition lawsuit against F.B.I. impatriotics whose 8-figure malfeasance-charged fines could be your tax dollars at despot's work; sweeping stupidly bellicose one single mention of fascist Republican war criminalities to avoid entering the list of thousands of them (www.WayneMadsenReport.com), decent and innocent souls extraordinarily and illegally renditioned -- your tax dollars and taxing self-disparagement toadiness, at work, again -- in the human rights crimes of military-industrial proxy-mercenary torture murderings (which just like Adolf Hitler, Mr.TeeVee endorses) until, now, only the 14 surviving victims are claimed -- without evidentiary proof, again -- to have been transferred, illegally, to and set to be finished off at the atrocity arena you battily bloodthirst to Git mo' of.
    But I want to go back to something you said earlier, (Sep 11, 2006 6:08:26 AM), or somebody like you, and advise whoever heeds the heads-up: that you could "just go piss" as you say, and also could put shit in your mouth to chew on before you speak again to get an idea what your words make you -- war crimes collaborator. Someone should be around to check on you after Nuremberg-going impeachments dishabiles the skirts you hide and harbor inhuman hate behind today. People are beautiful and bright, people -- that would be us -- are all and everything, but by all appearances you congenitally hate when that happens for some probable comparative disadvantage in a milieu making you loser. Pity, you spell and wordwork so well in your infamy of temper infidelius, as much as all experience has seen in those who fooled the intelligence community of mistaken qualification before being rumped and dumped back in civil ordered society you never came out of identified with in the first place -- that origin being dispiritingly viable birth.
    JJArk -- you got the exack fack jack: Security for me is thee and for thee is me, and mutual, too, for common threat and danger. When you go on like TeeVee dismissing what is truth's importance -- Decide: Theory A. Osamaboys did it; Theory B. Bushboys did it -- how can you have our backs until you know what threatening you are warding? You're right, it's up to you, and me. And you're right, "what now?" to be matters more. I said what I see on a later thread, (Jeff Alworth's "9/11 - Violence and Other Lessons"), but here, in short, what now is: They strike again. They'll be ba-a-ack. Very like they threaten. So you may see it is important to know, what the first ones looked like in order to recognize the same ones a second time, approaching. (Psst! Hint: They look bush-league Ivy league.)
    Ginny -- thanks for the links and honeyed toast. I found and read half your list, (it only takes a week or two of study halls), and, Props!, Big up!, am down with your surmise. However, except, I don't see your objections in some 'remote' possibilities, I don't see the Boeing hunted for you say you see, and I do see days-old new information on the case we could share. Not here, the TeeVee's always on. That's what's wrong with this place, auteurs quoting status quo Democrat brandbrain and anti-Democrat blankbrain.

    We could meet up over at BlogForOregon.com and kick around some new information.
    <h1/>
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    Ginny:
    Here's another 102 links for your review... To reiterate: I believe you are pissing on the graves of the dead when you suggest that "Da Gummint" was the true perpetrator of the 9/11 attacks. Your tin-foil hat needs another layer: you're making the Sasquatch hunters and the UFOlogists look respectable, by way of comparison.
    While I am not a structural enginner, those who are believe that falling debris from WTC 1 (see page 5-16) ignited a fire at 7 World Trade Center ("WTC 7") that was accelerated by large diesel storage tanks (with more than 30,000 gallons of capacity) that fueled the fires. There was also a 10 story "gash" on the south side of the building, presumably resulting from falling WTC 1 debris. WTC 7's "cantilevered" design (especially floor 5 and 7) likely compromised the entire structure.

    Sadly, given the close proximity of two 112 story towers that had just collapsed, the smoke and debris made it difficult to document the extent of damage to WTC 7 before it also collapsed. The firefighting capacity was severely diminished in lower Manhattan, and there was no "manual" water deployed on 7 WTC (the duration of automatic sprinkler deployment is also unknown, but the consensus is that the sprinkler pipes were compromised). Did I mention there was an electrical substation in the basement?
    Given that both the US Secret Service and the NY City Mayor's Office of Emergency Management were located in 7 WTC, it sure was some conspiracy to make certain they never found out about it. Cause they would be pissed.
    Never demand a conspiracy when sheer bureacratic malaise and political correctness can explain how September 11th occurred without a hitch.
    95% of these conspiracy theories are baseless horseshit that use innuendo and/or bad camera angles to suggest that 4 airplanes simply vanished without a trace. To paraphrase an old joke: who would you like us to believe Ginny, YOU, or our lying eyes?
    NEVER FORGET the brave souls on UAL Flight 93 who sacrificed their own lives in order to spare the U.S. Congress or the White House from destruction (much to Tenskey's dismay).
    They are the only ones who proactively defeated the terrorists of 9/11, and we owe them an eternal debt of gratitude.

    http://www.serendipity.li/wot/7wtc.html
  • Mr. Tee --- The FEMA report!!!! ROTFLMAO! If it weren't so sad.
    "95% of these conspiracy theories are baseless horseshit that use innuendo and/or bad camera angles to suggest that 4 airplanes simply vanished without a trace."
    This comment is, itself, the baseless waste matter with no foundation. I do not espouse no-plane theories, nor do any of the dozens of quality research sites I visit. We demand tapes, blackboxes and other evidence that has been purposely SUPRESSED. Why do you contort and twist so to defend the "baseless HS" of the Commission Report? It uses 10 times worse science than these theories you invent in my comments which are not there, and then deride. The Omission Report forgot to include 40+ massive steel core columns in each of the towers. WTF! If they can't get a simple thing like that right, why are you so determined to cover their lying HS producing regions! I don't get it. Unless you are one of the many provocatuers out there trying to waste our time. Well unless you can come up with some kind of reality based assessment using actual science I will just rest my case on WTC 7 with Steven Jones' excellent paper. Have fun with your insipid sarcasm and insults of me, they mean less than squat. The Popular Mechanics and FEMA reports are nonsense when you look at them. There is no possible way a diesel explosion could produce the result you see with your eyes.
    "To paraphrase an old joke: who would you like us to believe Ginny, YOU, or our lying eyes?"
    <h2>Don't believe me, do the research yourself. Believe your eyes, but only after you open them. They are currently slammed shut due to your a priori acceptance of the official myth instead of an open investigation of the all the facts. Go here, http://www.st911.org, scroll down on the right and read the debunking of the NIST and Popular Mechanics pieces. Another illuminating piece on the whole Popular Mechanics fiasco is here. Also, I bolded the paragraph that characterizes much of the debate. Faith or Bush based believers in the myth pick the most absurd thing they can find in the truth movement and think they've solved it all if they can debunk the most absurd, fringe, ridiculous claim they can find.</h2> 9/11 Op/Eds: One Great Big Stupid Lie After Another Hacks Scribble While the Official Conspiracy Theory Burns! http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3428 Guest blogged by Winter Patriot
    I don't know whether you've noticed, but I have: billions and billions of op/ed pieces coming out every day lately, purportedly "debunking" the so-called "conspiracy theorists" on the subject of 9/11. A glutton for punishment, I read as many of them as I can get my grubby little hands on.
    <h2>One thing they do — one thing they all do — is fasten onto one or a few of the least plausible suggestions ever advanced by anyone who didn't believe the official story of 9/11, shred them (yes, very easy to do!) and then act as if such shredding nullifies every question raised by every person who does not believe the “official conspiracy theory" of 9/11.</h2> And I would just add, they have a hard time honestly looking at independent evidence because they are too busy trying to insult those of us who are.
    Enjoy your truthseeking.
  • Mister Tee (unverified)
    Ginny:

    You need help.

    Even if you've never heard that suggestion before, let me assure you that you are going to hear it again from friends and family members that listen to your conspiracy theories. These friends and family members aren't trying to insult you or diminish your capacity for reason: they are trying to help you understand that people who disagree with your beliefs have based their opinions on reasonable data, and they are not parties to the conspiracy that resulted (in your opinion) in the attack on 9/11.

    Speak with your doctor, or call your EAP/Insurance provider and tell them you would like a referral for a psychiatric consultation.
    Let me assure you that I'm not with the FBI, the CIA, FEMA, DoD, the Insurance Lobby, AIPAC, Mossad, the White House, or any of the other perpetrators or investigators of the 9/11 attacks.
    I am a staunch defender of the truth, and I'm frustrated with the large body of unreliable and misleading data that is available on the web. There is no accountability, and anybody can make up anything and then post it as "truthiness".

    The overwhelming body of evidence suggests that Al Qaeda was responsible for 9/11, including the recent videotape released by Usama Bin Laden. I understand that you disagree with this simple thesis. If you reject this explanation, then please indicate who you believe to be responsible, and how they managed to destroy several high-rise buildings in Manhattan, 4 planes, and damage the Pentagon. Don't give me any more links: tell me what you believe to be the truth.
    Here's a 294 page report from the National Institute on Standards and Technology at http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-81.pdf. The specific discussion of WTC 7 begins on page 108 (there's a great photo of a burned out fire truck next to WTC 7 taken soon after the collapse of WTC 1): this was the "pumper" that would have supplied water pressure to the risers inside of WTC 7, if it hadn't been destroyed. Effective firefighting capability was compromised by this (and other) FDNY equipment and personnel losses. If you don't successfully combat the fire, and there is sufficient fuel to raise the maximum temperatures, just about any steel building will be destroyed.
    More information is available at http://wtc.nist.gov/
  • Mr. Tee,
    <h2>It is you who needs help, and urgently. It appears you have bought the Big Lie, lock, stock and barrel. I have done more than enough to point you to reliable sources. Note that the NIST and 9/11 Commission reports are riddled with scientific impossibilities, lies, highly conflicted oversight, massive redactions, and the omission of vast areas of documented facts and relevant information from Sibel Edmonds, Indira Singh (PTech) and Michael Ruppert (War Games and Drills). The Osama video you site is like a very bad joke. If you believe Bin Ladin is in the tape, the help you need may be out of reach no matter what link or assistance I provide. Good luck in your quest for understanding. I tried.</h2>


So much for group recruiting at Blue Oregon Democrat Blog.  The only thing left was to go back to her cult buddies Petros Evdokas and Tim Titrud, and try to drum up support among those stupid enough to fall for the Holocaust Denying fringe.

When in Rome...